Willy disassemblies in hexadecimal

[jetsetdanny]

(without having read the spoiler)

 

I've tried it repeatedly and I don't think it's possible. The mechanism which allows Willy to perform a double jump is not there any more. Willy doesn't get hold of the rope unless he's below certain height, and it's too far away from the top to jump effectively.

[IRF]

(without having read the spoiler)

 

I've tried it repeatedly and I don't think it's possible. The mechanism which allows Willy to perform a double jump is not there any more. Willy doesn't get hold of the rope unless he's below certain height, and it's too far away from the top to jump effectively.

 

Now read the spoiler, and try again!

 

No Patch Vectors, or other changes to the game engine, were involved!

[jetsetdanny]

Why should I try again? It's possible in other rooms, but not in this one, isn't it?

[IRF]

Why should I try again? It's possible in other rooms, but not in this one, isn't it?

 

Sorry, I thought (assumed on the basis that you said you hadn't read the spoiler) that you'd only tried in On the Roof.  Have you also wandered next door and tried (successfully) in The Beach (I made a short-cut between those two rooms to make it easier to investigate)?

 

If you haven't been there, then you should be puzzled as to why Willy behaves differently on two identical ropes (of the same guardian class, and perhaps I should have made it explicit that The Beach's Up Exit is also set to itself), without any kind of Patch Vector involved?!

 

However, if you've been to The Beach in that file, you'll have noticed something different about that room, and whilst I haven't yet provided a full explanation, it should give you a pretty big clue!

 

EDIT: i.e.  It is The Beach that is the exceptional room in this file, not On the Roof.

Edited September 23, 2016 by IRF

[jetsetdanny]

Sorry, I thought (assumed on the basis that you said you hadn't read the spoiler) that you'd only tried in On the Roof.  Have you also wandered next door and tried (successfully) in The Beach (I made a short-cut between those two rooms to make it easier to investigate)?

 

Yes, I have.

 

If you haven't been there, then you should be puzzled as to why Willy behaves differently on two identical ropes (of the same guardian class, and perhaps I should have made it explicit that The Beach's Up Exit is also set to itself), without any kind of Patch Vector involved?!

 

I focus on the specific tasks I undertake. My task tonight was to determine whether jumping into the room above in the file you provided was possible. I tried it in "On the Roof" and failed. Then after reading the spoiler I tried it in "The Beach" and succeeded. The task - to determine whether something is possible or not - has been fulfilled. I wasn't tasked with wondering *why* something is possible or not  ;) .

 

However, if you've been to The Beach in that file, you'll have noticed something different about that room, and whilst I haven't yet provided a full explanation, it should give you a pretty big clue!

 

EDIT: i.e.  It is The Beach that is the exceptional room in this file, not On the Roof.

 

Well, having two ropes instead of one seems  to be a big enough difference. There's also the Air's PAPER colour, if that's anything to go by...

[IRF]

Well, having two ropes instead of one seems to be a big enough difference.

 

Bingo!!!

 

You may not have noticed it, but there was a careful use of italics in this part of my previous post:

 

I think I have managed to come up with a code change which precludes Willy escaping 'from the top to the bottom' of a room that has a rope and the Up Exit set to itself.

 

My posing the question as to WHY this makes a difference to Willy's behaviour, was aimed more at the likes of Richard, who perhaps has more in-depth knowledge of the rope-drawing code?

 

Incidentally, it's got nothing to do with the Adjacent Ropes Bug - John Elliott's patch for that is in place in the 'No Top to Bottom' file, and in any case there's an arrow in between the two ropes in The Beach's guardian list.

 

Anyway, thanks for taking up my challenge, Danny!

Edited September 23, 2016 by IRF

[jetsetdanny]

Anyway, thanks for taking up my challenge, Danny!

 

It was a pleasure  :) . And this time I could only confirm that what you declared to be impossible was indeed impossible!

[IRF]

I've just rediscovered an earlier post (discussing the forthcoming 'Jet Set Mini' project), which describes a similar kind of behaviour (with a twist).  This should give another clue as to how I managed to achieve the jump off the top of the screen in the above:

 

 

Quote

- I set the Up Exit from Swimming Pool to The Orangery [instead of looping back to the Swimming Pool], as it was possible to fall down onto the rope from above and cause some odd 'teleport' effects!  (Willy landed on a segment of the rope that wasn't 'permitted', and as soon as you tried to shift him along a bit, he instantaneously jumped to a point halfway down the rope!  Also, it was possible to jump from the point at which Willy fell onto the rope, off the top of the screen - causing him to be teleported into the path of the Underwater Monk on the same screen, causing an IDS!!)

 

 

I would also add that in relation to the point above in blue, if you didn't try and shift Willy along the rope, then he sat there quite happily at the 'impermissible' height! (i.e. at a rope segment in the range 1 to 15 - N.B. Richard's POKES were also in place in the scenario being described.)

 

EDIT: In this scenario, you can also turn Willy round to face in the opposite direction without triggering the sudden shift downwards - as long as you don't move him into a different frame of animation!

 

Unfortunately, at the moment I can't share the working file in which I observed the above, but I'll try to recreate the phenomenon in a test file later.

 

As promised above, I've recreated the effect that I was referring to, and I've recorded a .rzx file (see attached).

 

Preamble: I've implemented Richard's POKEs that prevent Willy climbing above Rope Segment 15, changed the initial swing direction of the Ropes, drained the Swimming Pool of water, and set the Swimming Pool's Up Exit to itself.

 

Here's a running commentary of the (short) recording:

 

Starting in The Orangery, Willy drops down and lands on the Rope, at a segment that is higher than the permissible minimum value of 15.  There he remains, swinging merrily; he can turn round and face the opposite way without moving (i.e. by pressing the Movement Key in opposition to his facing direction).

 

But when I tried to get him to move along the rope (by pressing the Movement Key that corresponds with the direction he is facing), he jerks suddenly downwards, straight to Rope Segment 15 (as previously discussed).

 

I then repeated the earlier trick of getting him to jump off the top of the screen, in defiance of our earlier analyses.

 

if you haven't figured it out yet, in order to do this you have to keep the Jump Key depressed throughout the first jump, until he connects with the Rope and jumps again before the code has had chance to 'catch up with him' - a fuller explanation will follow!

 

After reaching the top of the screen, he emerges at the bottom (in the empty pool).

 

Finally, I demonstrated another little quirky set of behaviours, which I believe are related to the effects above:

 

- If you stand Willy underneath the Rope's central 'position of equilibrium', and make him jump sideways in the same direction that the Rope is swinging, just as the Rope passes over his head, then Willy doesn't catch onto the Rope, but he bounces off it (the rest of his jump is curtailed and he falls straight downwards);

 

[There are then a couple of 'false starts' in the recording, where Willy jumped but missed the Rope]

 

- If you start at the same position and make Willy jump sideways in the opposite direction to the way that the Rope is swinging, as the Rope passes overhead, then Willy is caught by the Rope - and in fact he moves up a segment (even if you haven't kept a movement key depressed after making the jump) - it then takes two nudges of the appropriate movement key [to climb downwards, you press the same direction as the Rope is swinging] to make him fall off the end of the Rope;

 

- If Willy jumps straight upwards as the Rope passes over his head in the central position, such that he collides with the bottom of the Rope, then he is caught by the lowest segment (as evidenced by the fact that it only takes one nudge of the 'climb downwards' movement key, to make him fall off the end of it).

 

P.S.  The Adjacent Ropes Patch is in place, so this is all 'standard' Rope behaviour!

 

[EDIT: Note to Danny: I've just come across an old message of yours on the Yahoo site; from my reading of it, it seems like you may have been encountering the problem of 'bouncing off the end of a Rope'?

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/manicminerandjetsetwilly/conversations/topics/6355]

More Rope Effects.rzx

Edited October 4, 2016 by IRF

[IRF]

For clarity, perhaps the entry at #85CC should be described as "Lives remaining (after the current one)"?

[IRF]

[EDIT: Note to Danny: I've just come across an old message of yours on the Yahoo site; from my reading of it, it seems like you may have been encountering the problem of 'bouncing off the end of a Rope'?

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/manicminerandjetsetwilly/conversations/topics/6355

It turns out that I was sort of half-right about the above (which related to James Bond's trials and tribulations in the room 'GoldenEye'). However, the scenario didn't involve the player jumping up and 'bouncing off' the bottom segment of the rope.

 

Rather, the player was trying to grab the rope near the top (in a room with the Up Exit set to itself). And crucially, the length of the rope in that room is set to a value less than the 'maximum climb height' (which is 12 in a normal game; 15 with Richard's POKES in place).

 

The key to successfully completing this manoeuvre in GoldenEye (without wishing to overtly 'spoiler' Andrew Broad's game) can be found amongst the recent discussions in this thread.

 

EDIT: Actually, there are two quirky rope-based manoeuvres in 'GoldenEye', one of which does involve bouncing off the bottom segment of the rope when jumping up from below (or trying not to!)

Edited August 30, 2018 by IRF