andrewbroad

It sounds a bit like perpetual motion to me:
POKE 35976,0 for Manic Miner (Bug-Byte); POKE 36801,0 for Jet Set Willy.

I am delighted to see this message board back, especially as I will soon have to say goodbye to the Manic Miner & Jet Set Willy Yahoo! Group, because Yahoo! Groups will be shut down on 2020-12-15.

Tonight I stop all posts and take a rest from my computer for a month. So today is the 21st july 2020 , I will take a break from z80, zx spectrum and forums until 21st August 2020.

The slow drip drip of additions stops.

Have a nice summer.  

Thanks Norman for all you've done! B)
 
I concur please take a nice, decent and restful break.
 
...
#(some address) HALT ; lets have a rest! :)
 
I think the 6502 equivalent (ish) is BRK to the Z80's HALT but it works differently as you'd likely expect. I've kept away from 6502, I looked at it many years ago and it made no sense to my mind at least I could half read Z80. Likely me as its supposed to be not that difficult!

I wasn't suggesting anything needed changing with the blue conveyor, just thought it was worthy of a mention.
 
As you say, it would be impossible to iron out every logical inconsistency. Another example: in the attached image, it could be argued that the red crumbly cells at the top right shouldn't be illuminated by the torch, considering that Willy is positioned behind a solid wall and floor at that moment in time.  But trying to make the logic of the torchbeam's illumination contingent on the room layout surrounding Willy's current position would be a nightmare to implement!
 
Anyway, you've done a great job expanding out Pyguri's concept of the torchlit caverns.  :)

Not something I will look into. Black on blue turned into blue on black. The alternative being - Black on black.  No matter what is checked there is no alternative where the paper is black. 
 
 
I set out to do a quick interpretation of the original code and extend it.. That code took around two days to do. The added code checking I have done since  was to increase its play ability. Something I regret doing, it was a path that I added onto the code, that I still have misgivings about. The quirks will come thick and fast. I already know of several others. Cast you mind back to JSW and MM in their original guise and count the dozens of quirks they exhibit. How many years have you personally spent trying to correct them?  

The code I have written will exhibit lots of strange traits. Most of which I will not even attempt to change.

Updated the title screen animation.

Removed all other versions.

1 version which has all the updates in.

That's my lot on this format-version.
 
This Link 





 

Can't get that link to load (as I write this, problem at my side) but as the original JSW and MM loaders are not protected you can MERGE them and add pokes as a new line before the USR statement.
 
:)
 
Depending on the game loader, if the final USR statement is on say line 40, you'd add a line 35 or if its on 30 you'd add a 25. I'm picking a 5 so you don't overwrite any existing lines.
 
But for MM (both variants) you can simply use this crude one:
 
10 CLEAR 28E3
20 LOAD "" CODE
30 PRINT AT 0,0;
40 LOAD "" CODE
50
60
70
80 RANDOMIZE USR 33792
 
50 60 and 70 should be your poke lines as required.
 
10 Sets RamTop to a sane value to permit the code to be loaded
20 Loads in the 'loading pic'
30 Moves the print pointer back to the top of the screen out the way of the pic
40 Loads in the game code block
50 , 60 , 70 as written above !
80 Calls the game code
 
 
You therefore may be interested in this topic too > Pokes (Spectrum Version)

When I used to play Manic Miner on a real Spectrum, I would sometimes encounter a bug whereby some cells at the top of the screen would randomly change colour (and not because I fell off the bottom of the screen or jumped up off the top, which corrupts Room 7 unless the game engine has been patched to fix this bug).

Yes, Kokotoni Wilf was another great game from the same era, but as has been said, not quite the magic of
MM & JSW - they just have ingredient X, a certain magic about both games, even now. Some of it is clearly
psychological nostalgia, remembering our hopefully happy childhoods, but I don't still play MM & JSW for
purely sentimental reasons, I enjoy the gameplay and find it rewarding, and for what my opinion is worth, there
are virtually no new decent PC games worth playing anymore for me, I have almost given up with them. I enjoyed
RTX Quake II, not much since.
 
I agree entirely with what you say about TT The Megamix, and this is the version I currently have in progress, slightly easier and bigger
and better generally, and in truth I have poked it for infinite time too as it detailed above. I have Costa Capers on the go occasionally too, but as you say, innovative - yes. Good gameplay?
Hmm. Sometimes. I think it might be slightly easier than TT though. But a bit of a hybrid. Still, the Marsden and Cooke team
I think it was they did provide some very high quality software, technically very good, mega loaders (TT The Mega Mix
is just stellar and the first time you ever saw TT was a thing of amazement as I remember.) I think Costa Capers was their
last game sadly.

Officially for me the only versions of Manic Panic are the ones in post #112 here   This Link
 
 
The first being without the final Bonus, the second with the Bonus. The preference now being to use the 2nd version.


As a technical extension, I might add a third version, with dark/light in it.  (written)

If I add the third version it has two more playing modes. Lantern and Candle 
 
These modes are in addition to the original modes. trainer/normal/expert/ace
The Lantern mode plays with the blue Background and the rotate beam. Timer runs as normal. Can touch baddies and oxygen depletes
The Candle mode plays with a black background. To me it is practically unplayable. Death on any baddy contact.

In order to play the game with a black background. I have added into the timer the recognition of when Willy is moving or not.
If Willy is moving left or right then the clock ticks down.
If willy is jumping or falling the clock ticks down.
If willy is static then the clock stops. 
While willy is static and the clock is stopped he can rotate the light beam. Perhaps someone can get somewhere with it like this ?????

Note I say I might add a third version. Not I will add a third version
Any third version I add, will be a novelty version. 
 
 
 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Final game version accessible via  This Link

Thanks, but no thanks. I already have more recorded tennis than I can watch in the time that I have left.
 
It's nice to have a little time for JSW-editing in this holiday fortnight...

Thanks, but no thanks. I already have more recorded tennis than I can watch in the time that I have left.
 
It's nice to have a little time for JSW-editing in this holiday fortnight...

Most welcome. :) I did plan a selection of differences with various parts of the game (most machines) but its not a quick job unfortunately.
 
For now ( as this took longer than I thought :lol: ) here are the above visual differences, apart from the missing pixel in MAD/Venta Final Barrier.
 
Bug Byte is left screenshot, Software Projects is right screenshot.
 
 
Title Screen
The missing pixel on the car windscreen frame on the BB version:
 

 
 
Processing Plant
The different item UDG graphic and the different Fire Cell UDG on the conveyor. The latter is sometimes overlooked:
 

 
 
The Warehouse
The different vertical guardians. The SP ones represent the Software Projects 'impossible triangle' logo:
 

 
 
Amoebatrons' Revenge
The different vertical guardians:
 

 
 
The screenshots were taken up immediate entry into each cavern by inserting a breakpoint to stop code execution immediately upon it being 'ready' as such, this way you get the first real full screen 'frame' of it all. The only 'manual tampering' with the images aside from joining two together with a 4px white border between them was to remove the teleporter boot and set all the air bars to be identical, simply for neatness's sake. :D

My local Co-op is getting increasingly bizarre, with its one-out, one-in guard, physical-distancing lines, and windows at the checkouts.

Now it has implemented a one-way system for walking round the shop, and closed some of the openings between the aisles. I felt like I was playing a cross between Pacman and Manic Miner!

One other thing, the MAD (Mastertronic) re-release is missing a pixel on the horizontal guardian on Final Barrier. This is because the byte is missing from the tape file! :D
 
Apart from that and the tiny Basic loader changes (and screen changes) the SP and MAD versions are identical "code" wise. All ZX 'official' re-releases are based on the SP version however.

The code changed a bit (as well as teleport code) to allow the IF2 joystick to work properly, really this means changing it from the 'Cursor' joystick to the Interface2 standard.
 
Talking of code the source remnants in the BB version are replaced in the SP version with a repeating pattern of 00/FF (000,255) , bear in mind most of the code is not in quite the same place in the SP version!
 
Teleport code changed. Active key moved from 6 to 9 because 6 is used by the IF2 (its in theory used by cursor too but it signals "down" so its not used in MM as such)
 
Scrolling message changed as well as loader with attribution details. The sprite differences are not huge the main game sprite changes are:
 
A missing pixel in the title screen / Final Barrier in M.W's car windscreen frame is filled in. This is not a common thing to be noted!
The fire and item cells in Processing Plant are different , this is also not always noted!
The vertical guardians in Amoebatron's Revenge are different
The vertical guardians in The Warehouse are different
 
Code below 33902 is identical between versions (aside from char changes)
Code above 33718 is identical between versions (aside from sprite changes etc)
Code between these is either 6 , 11 or 13 (accurately it should say 6 then 13 then 11) bytes higher up
 
See this topic for a bit more info on the loaders if curious.
 
External links with more details can be found here and here if required. :thumbsup:
 
 
As an aside in other platforms, there are some screen changes too. In particular the BBC Micro version has a completely different full screen Final Barrier and no Solar Power, replaced with 'Meteor Storm' iirc. There are screenshots of all this (for most platforms) in various topics in the JSW section if curious.

Just because the Bug-Byte edition is the original version, I guess, and leaves Software Projects out of the copyright infringement.
 
I started playing MM on my 48K Spectrum with a legal cassette copy of the Software Projects edition.

Just because the Bug-Byte edition is the original version, I guess, and leaves Software Projects out of the copyright infringement.
 
I started playing MM on my 48K Spectrum with a legal cassette copy of the Software Projects edition.

Playing in the darkened room.
 
 
Possible the person playing has a screen with the fully lit cavern displayed on it, to guide them.
 
 
What i did find when playing the version I modified (manic panic version) was that having the attributes flicking from square to square as you walk. attunes you to the points at which you need to jump. I found the pixel perfect jumps that are sometime required to leap from platform to platform were a lot easier.

Noted two YouTube video's of this...
 
Manic Miner with Light Modification (2020) Walkthrough, ZX Spectrum
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3GVWY1Iq0Q
 
 
Let's Play Manic Miner Dark Light Modification & First Impressions - 2020 ZX Spectrum Game
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHXfni4ZVJU

i spent an hour this morning, and then another hour tweaking the various effects. --- Re- [File] Manic Miner - DarkLight Modification
 
 
since the file on hand was the last file I modified, i used that file to see what various effects I could do.

Whilst doing this is not difficult. I am not attempting to do the same in Manic Miner or Jet SET Willy. The code would be pretty much identical for both versions.
 
In jet set willy , he does not use a lamp- so less obvious to use.
 
 
---------------------------------------
 
 
problems
 
If the background is blacked out - the screen has to be memorized. Not easy on unfamiliar screens. So I stopped looking at black background versions straight away.
if the background is blued out, then distinction with blue platforms disappears. They look just blued out.
coloured backgrounds undecided what that looks like
 
in this version I hallowed the light in yellow. looked better than white- saw no point in blue- as I always prefered the background left in. (and that was blue)
 
 
The screen layout I am using has problems mainly due to the oxygen bar. Any other glitches are due to not bothering any further.
 
The original aim was a directional light, I started with a general surround light and felt no need to add a few lines of code for the directional light. 
MP_torch.tap

An addendum to the above file - directional beam --- I mentioned it --- so I then needed to do it.


Directional beams of light.
 
 
 
looking left and looking right - when in a normal blue background room
MPTorch2.tap

That's quite excellent. :)
 
It does work quite well and add atmosphere to the game. Some credit must go to Pgyuri for the idea initially but I can perhaps foresee this general principle being good for various third party games.
 
Regarding JSW, I do agree its not terribly ideal however certain screens could possibly use it, perhaps something like WineCellar or other potentially 'dimly lit' areas. Does pose a slight quandary there with if he should have a miner's lamp/helmet or be carrying a torch of somekind but I guess that is something for a different topic.
 
My other feedback I'd posted previously (not as a hint in any way merely a thought regarding blue/black background area) was if M.W has 'seen' an area it should then remain in blue afterwards, by this I mean the cavern starts as black aside from the area lit by his lamp, but once he's 'seen' an area but left it, it goes to blue.

Will check that out, have heard of it but that's as far as I know. I do appear to already have it, AMS version, does not appear to be a ZX version, not to immediate hand anyway. Not 100% sure why as in theory its not a complete rewrite to move software between the CPC and the ZX
 
 
 
 
So similar in one way to our games here, "collect the bits and move on!" :D
 
I have a CPC464 , wish I'd got the 128 at the time, this was a few years ago when they were at their lowest prices "retro sales" wise I mean before the resurge in interest. To be honest I may sell it anyway as its hardly used. One thing is its length, at least if you place it next to a +2 its huge! :lol: