IRF Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 Beta build 0.4 is the most recent build I have seen / played. The tennis room is the one mentioned by IRF as the penultimate screen, the one with lots of crumbling brick. You collect tennis racket objects the the crumbling brick is in a net design, so I thought it was all tennis related, I think the eye nasties make a kind of court area or something like that / umpires. To collect the rackets you have to approach them from above. Is tennis something to do with Dr Broad, or am I getting confused with someone else who plays a lot of tennis? It is possible. Ah, I see! The 'tennis racket' item shape comes from the Cold Room, where I interpreted them as snowshoes! But magenta snow (the crumbly cells) would be a most unusual phenomenon! Yes, I believe Andrew Broad is a tennis afficionado. andrewbroad and MtM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 MtM, the penny has just dropped about what you meant by this comment!: The penultimate screen I think based on tennis is a tricky one until you work out which way you need to approach collecting the objects! You're referring to the need to drop down onto the items from above (after you've stood on and crumbled away the crumbly cell in which each of them is embedded). I took your comment "which way you need to approach collecting" to mean that you have to take care to collect the items in a particular order (as you do in Eugene's Lair, for example, in order to be able to reach the portal in time once Angry Eugene starts descending). MtM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtM Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 Sorry, I guess the way I explained it was a bit confusing. The issue comes from the display of the crumbly brick, if it had been overtly crumbly floor I would of understood the level straight away. Probably a thesis there on semiotics in games. Thinking about it, yes, I remember the tennis rackets of course in The Cold Room, but I had never thought of them as snow shoes either. There is _definitely_ a thesis about semiotics in games here! Spider, IRF and jetsetdanny 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Sword Posted June 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) *One more bit of feedback - whilst the expanded playing area across the full screen height is great for the enhanced gameplay it provides, it's slightly confusing when discussing the caverns that they don't have names with which to identify them, so that we know which is which. For example, I'm not sure which one MtM was referring to now when talking about the 'penultimate cavern' [the 'tennis' reference didn't help], since the 'penultimate cavern' seems to have changed between Trainer and Normal modes! EDIT: between Builds 3 and 4 of the game. (It's a shame that the hardware doesn't allow a cavern name to be printed in the border!) Every cavern has a room number. Printed along the bottom of the screen. Only the final cavern moves to stay the final cavern. Every uploaded version states when it was uploaded and what beta version it is, in the scrolling message. The number of caverns was expanded to 27, might expand it to 28.- probably have space for more - have not looked, I have never uploaded a version where standing on nasties is removed. I mentioned in a post that pressing "T" switches the mode. I will add the message probably somewhere on that screen. I do not want a string of versions giving a chronicle of what I am doing. So I will probably not upload anymore versions. The basic story was he returned to the site of his old explorations. With that in mind I edited the basic caverns. No reason they stay as they are now , and no reason they stay in the same order. The chronicle of updates is why any old versions are removed. Uploading a version that is obsolete serves little purpose. Later versions use slightly differing graphics on the portals for each mode. To give a visual indication whilst playing in a mode.(not uploaded) For now, I have a question and a suggestion. My question is in regard to the final screen (the one with flying saucers moving up and down, which seem to behave like Eugene as you collect the items, only some of the guardians respond to different items being collected than others). I noticed that there are two switches in this screen, but one appears to be completely inaccessible (blocked by wall cells), whilst the other switch doesn't seem to perform any function at all? Is there some way in which either of these switches activates anything? The switches have for one reason or another, have lost their activation. I have played and activated them numerous times.... So looking for the problem. The problem was the switching "off" of sprites for the rooms in various modes. In Trainer the last two sprites are removed. In Normal just the last sprite. And in expert none. The switches are activated by the Switch Guardians. (Kongs) . The switch guardian had been removed from the room, and therefore monitoring of the switches had been removed. In expert mode when the switch is active. Activating the switch is the only way to collect one of the objects .... Easy fix -I will change the order of the guardians. Done - reactivated- (not uploaded) The removal of guardians was just a rough and ready method. I will re-order them to adjust the spread of guardians across a room. At present it becomes obvious that in most cases the lower guardians have been removed in a room. Drifting pixels- I go bored with the static pause. Thanks for the feed back. Having a variable mode play game has not made this easy. Far easier to detect collision and just kill,. Far easier to have a fixed room and sprite layout. --------------------------------------------------------------- Final game version accessible via This Link Edited July 20, 2020 by Norman Sword MtM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 Sorry, I guess the way I explained it was a bit confusing. The issue comes from the display of the crumbly brick, if it had been overtly crumbly floor I would of understood the level straight away. Probably a thesis there on semiotics in games. Thinking about it, yes, I remember the tennis rackets of course in The Cold Room, but I had never thought of them as snow shoes either. There is _definitely_ a thesis about semiotics in games here! I read an interview with Matthew Smith (interview conducted by Dr Andrew Broad!) in which, if memory serves [tennis pun intended] correctly, Matthew said the Cold Room items were supposed to be snowshoes, but he left out a pixel [either that or the opposite - he inserted a pixel erroneously - I can't recall which], which made the items look like tennis rackets. Andrew Broad released a 2008 Remix of Manic Miner, in which the item shape for the Cold Room was tweaked, to add/delete the said pixel. I also carried that forward into the cavern 'The Big Freeze' in the jswmm.co.uk release 'Manic Mixup'. MtM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Playing the Expert mode (Build 4) now. I just tried to flick the switch to kill Kong in the first Kong cavern, and died. I noticed when playing in one of the easier modes that the falling (red) Kong saps air supply if Willy touches it before it falls all the way and disappears (it falls slowly so you have time to get down from the right-hand switch to touch it, if you're quick). I think what's happening here in Expert mode is that the red Kong hits the platform upon which it has been standing (which doesn't get cleared away in time before upside-down Kong hits it), killing Willy. Change of logic from the original Manic Miner, where the falling Kong is harmless to Willy. EDIT: Although it didn't happen in the Return of Kong cavern! (As in, red Kong is still fatal to touch, so you have to wait for it to fall all the way down the big drop before dropping into the portal. But flipping the second switch to make Kong fall isn't fatal to Willy, unlike in the first Kong cavern in Expert mode.) Edited June 9, 2020 by IRF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Sword Posted June 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Playing the Expert mode (Build 4) now. I just tried to flick the switch to kill Kong in the first Kong cavern, and died. I noticed when playing in one of the easier modes that the falling (red) Kong saps air supply if Willy touches it before it falls all the way and disappears (it falls slowly so you have time to get down from the right-hand switch to touch it, if you're quick). I think what's happening here in Expert mode is that the red Kong hits the platform upon which it has been standing (which doesn't get cleared away in time before upside-down Kong hits it), killing Willy. Change of logic from the original Manic Miner, where the falling Kong is harmless to Willy. EDIT: Although it didn't happen in the Return of Kong cavern! (As in, red Kong is still fatal to touch, so you have to wait for it to fall all the way down the big drop before dropping into the portal. But flipping the second switch to make Kong fall isn't fatal to Willy, unlike in the first Kong cavern in Expert mode In trainer mode and normal mode touching a sprite saps air. Kong if visible is always active. In expert mode touching Kong will always kill Kong can not deplete air or kill Willy by any means other than contact. Kong is not interested in any graphic it passes over. Only Willy tests for collision. Only Willy can kill for collision. In Normal and training mode the only way to die is depletion of the air supply via Nasties/sprite collision/time/ and falling too far. Complete re-write of every bit of code. Kong kills in expert mode if touched. Saps air if touched in normal and training mode. (NOTE the air is NOT set for Normal mode - so no difference in air for later levels and therefore no difference "air wise" between normal and trainer) ------------------------- Not everything is fixed and written in stone. A light switch might be activated by pushing down. In most cases that is true. However an intermediate switch used in halls permits the switch to be in any state. Activated by pushing up or down. Having something different does not make it wrong, it is just different. Otherwise you would stand for a long time waiting for the light switch to be activated only by pressing downward. (apologies if you only use push button and the status of the button is not up or down) --------------------------------------------------------------- Final game version accessible via This Link Edited July 20, 2020 by Norman Sword Spider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 Nothing to do with Kong then, but I'm still not sure why Willy is apparently killed when he touches the right-hand switch in the first Kong cavern? (In Expert mode) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Sword Posted June 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 example of change.When Kong falls he increases the score for each frame of fall. The Bonus Given by Kong is dependent on permitting Kong to fall all the way. Touching Kong in expert mode curtails the fall of Kong, as Willy dies in that instance. This change means the full bonus of Kong's fall is only achieved when he has completed his fall. The older simplistic method gave the bonus in one go. Even if a few frames later Willy dies. Spider and MtM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted June 9, 2020 Report Share Posted June 9, 2020 example of change. When Kong falls he increases the score for each frame of fall. The Bonus Given by Kong is dependent on permitting Kong to fall all the way. Touching Kong in expert mode curtails the fall of Kong, as Willy dies in that instance. This change means the full bonus of Kong's fall is only achieved when he has completed his fall. And indeed also in the Trainer and Normal modes, if Willy falls past/through the falling Kong in the second Kong cavern (which is possible because Willy falls faster than Kong, so he can 'overtake' it), then as well as getting some air sapped as Willy passes through the Kong, you won't get the full bonus score for killing it if WIlly reaches the portal and exits the cavern before the Kong has completed its fall. The older simplistic method gave the bonus in one go. Even if a few frames later Willy dies. I'm fairly sure that the original Manic Miner engine assigns some bonus points on the basis of every frame that Kong is falling. The difference being that Kong falls at the same rate as Willy, so it is physically impossible for Willy to reach the portal in the time between tripping the switch and the Kong falling into the portal. Also, there are no hazards in close proximity to the second switch in either Kong cavern, so it's probably quite difficult not to achieve the full bonus score by dint of Willy losing a life before the Kong reaches the portal. Anyway, I'll do a recording of Willy being killed by the switch in the first Kong cavern so you can see what I mean. Spider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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