Jet Set Willy speedrunning videos

[IRF]

Ah yes, that's because it resets the rope's position so that it arrives a fraction sooner at the right place for Willy's escape from the crabs!

It could have gone either way, but it turns out to be slightly beneficial to the speed.

[jetsetdanny]

Interesting 👍

[RuffledBricks]

51 minutes ago, IRF said:

Ah yes, that's because it resets the rope's position so that it arrives a fraction sooner at the right place for Willy's escape from the crabs!

It could have gone either way, but it turns out to be slightly beneficial to the speed.

Yeah, it's the same with On The Roof. Rope warp doesn't really improve how fast you execute the main bulk of the level. Its main benefit is simply in speeding up the rope.

I checked to see if it was possible to do the jump into the ceiling from the left, i.e. jumping onto the rope then immediately going to the top to do the jump, but it doesn't appear to be possible. You can't get to the top of the rope before its cut-off point becomes too low to reach the ceiling.

[IRF]

  On 5/9/2021 at 3:53 PM, RuffledBricks said:

the triple jump in OOAL is easy once you've found the right starting position - it also reopens the discussion about whether it's worth utilising a deathwarp in that room, as the second half of the room has now been made longer as a result.

Further to the above comment (from the topic discussing crem's JSW algorithm), I've just completed 'Out on a Limb' in less than one in-game minute - see the attached RZX recording.  In 'real-world' time, it took 21 seconds from entering 'Out on a Limb' up to the moment when Willy dropped down into 'On a Branch over the Drive'.

That compares with 28 seconds in my previous attempt - see RZX attached to this post by RuffledBrick:

https://jswmm.co.uk/topic/569-jet-set-willy-speedrunning-videos/?do=findComment&comment=12737

(In both cases, Willy still had all his spare lives and the in-game music was playing.)

So that's a 25% time saving compared with my previous effort.

**

Extrapolating that to RB's videos (as embedded in the post at the link below) - in which Willy had no spare lives and the music wasn't playing (and RB's kamikaze efforts were more efficient than my previous attempt, though obviously not as efficient as the 'triple jump' in my latest video) - I reckon the saving provided by a very efficient kamikaze route through 'Out on a Limb' could be about 11-12 seconds of 'real world' time, compared with the non-sacrificial route.

It also looks *much* cooler!!

https://jswmm.co.uk/topic/569-jet-set-willy-speedrunning-videos/?do=findComment&comment=12739

Faster Out on a Limb Route with Kamikaze.rzx

Edited May 13, 2021 by IRF

[RuffledBricks]

15 hours ago, IRF said:

  On 5/9/2021 at 3:53 PM, RuffledBricks said:

the triple jump in OOAL is easy once you've found the right starting position - it also reopens the discussion about whether it's worth utilising a deathwarp in that room, as the second half of the room has now been made longer as a result.

Further to the above comment (from the topic discussing crem's JSW algorithm), I've just completed 'Out on a Limb' in less than one in-game minute - see the attached RZX recording.  In 'real-world' time, it took 21 seconds from entering 'Out on a Limb' up to the moment when Willy dropped down into 'On a Branch over the Drive'.

That compares with 28 seconds in my previous attempt - see RZX attached to this post by RuffledBrick:

https://jswmm.co.uk/topic/569-jet-set-willy-speedrunning-videos/?do=findComment&comment=12737

(In both cases, Willy still had all his spare lives and the in-game music was playing.)

So that's a 25% time saving compared with my previous effort.

**

Extrapolating that to RB's videos (as embedded in the post at the link below) - in which Willy had no spare lives and the music wasn't playing (and RB's kamikaze efforts were more efficient than my previous attempt, though obviously not as efficient as the 'triple jump' in my latest video) - I reckon the saving provided by a very efficient kamikaze route through 'Out on a Limb' could be about 11-12 seconds of 'real world' time, compared with the non-sacrificial route.

It also looks *much* cooler!!

https://jswmm.co.uk/topic/569-jet-set-willy-speedrunning-videos/?do=findComment&comment=12739

Faster Out on a Limb Route with Kamikaze.rzx 91.43 kB · 4 downloads

Re: the original discussion, there was never any doubt that deathwarping OOAL was quicker than doing the room normally. The discussion was about whether the OOAL deathwarp actually saved more time in a full run of the game than deathwarping one of the other MegaTree rooms.

In order to do the OOAL deathwarp, one would need to do both Under The Megatree and Cuckoo's Nest 'normally' so that you can preserve your last spare life. So whilst you would be saving time on OOAL, you would be adding 9 seconds of time back on whichever of the other two rooms you normally deathwarp (let's say UTM, given that it's ever so slightly more of a timesave than CN), plus a marginally slower game speed for MegaTrunk and Tree Top, given that you are doing those rooms with one life more than you would have been.

So to prove that OOAL deathwarp is more beneficial than UTM deathwarp, you would need to factor all of that in.

[IRF]

7 hours ago, RuffledBricks said:

In order to do the OOAL deathwarp, one would need to do both Under The Megatree and Cuckoo's Nest 'normally' so that you can preserve your last spare life. So whilst you would be saving time on OOAL, you would be adding 9 seconds of time back on whichever of the other two rooms you normally deathwarp (let's say UTM, given that it's ever so slightly more of a timesave than CN), plus a marginally slower game speed for MegaTrunk and Tree Top, given that you are doing those rooms with one life more than you would have been.

 

But since the triple-hop in Out on a Limb would save you about 12 seconds (by my reckoning), I think it should more than outweigh those factors?

Another thought: since both Under the MegaTree and Cuckoo's Nest are out-and-back journeys from the centre of the MegaTrunk, you could do one or both of them on the way back down the MegaTree, thereby speeding them up after having lost a life in Out on a Limb?

EDIT: Actually, that might mess up the timings with the guardians in Inside the MegaTrunk (because if you try to climb that room from below, you have to wait around for the red skull to get out of the way; whereas if you come back in from Cuckoo's Nest then by the time you've hopped over the green bird, the skull has already got out of the way so you can climb straight up).  But I'm fairly sure it's true of the out-and-back to Under the MegaTree - there aren't any guardians in either the core or the right-hand side of At the Foot of the MegaTree, so venturing out to Under the MegaTree and back should be just as easy on the way down the MegaTree as on the way up?

Edited May 14, 2021 by IRF

[IRF]

In a similar vein, if you are kamikazeing a life somewhere in the MegaTree (whether it be in Out on a Limb, Under the MegaTree or Cuckoo's Nest), then wouldn't it make more sense to do that before walking all the way to the Off Licence?  So that the traverse along the ground level of the equivalent of seven rooms - from the base of the MegaTree to the far end of the Off Licence, and all the way back again - is done with one less life needing to be printed on the status bar?

Putting all of the above thoughts together, how about this for a quicker route through the 'garden' area (starting just after emerging from 'Under the Drive' into 'The Drive'):

The Drive
At the Foot of the MegaTree [no need to collect the items yet, you'll have to jump through their location on the way back anyway in order to get over the purple saw - unless you think that the processing of drawing them all for longer slows down the game perceptibly?]
Inside the MegaTrunk
Cuckoo's Nest
Inside the MegaTrunk
Tree Top
Out on a Limb - triple-hop, then collect both items in one kamikaze jump [or vertical jump for the upper item first if you don't want to risk missing it], respawn, then drop down into...
On a Branch over the Drive
Inside the MegaTrunk
At the Foot of the MegaTree - exit upper right
Under the MegaTree (upper level)
At the Foot of the MegaTree - enter upper right, exit lower right
Under the MegaTree (lower level)
The Bridge
The Off Licence - kamikaze after collecting all the items
The Bridge
Under the MegaTree (lower level)
At the Foot of the MegaTree - you have to wait a few frames for the saw to move away, but then jumping over the saw you can collect two of the three items in the same jump, then collect the final (leftmost) item in a jump out to The Drive (unless you already collected the leftmost item jumping in from The Drive at the start - but that's risky as you can end up in an Infinite Death Scenario if you hit the Fire cells)
The Drive

I realise that would mean climbing the MegaTree with one more life remaining compared with doing the Off Licence first, but surely the time saving from doing the Off Licence after the MegaTree should be greater, because the rooms are all twice as wide as they are long?

It might be worth doing an experiment by speedrunning the above sequence (starting with two remaining lives/music off), and see how it compares with the timing of the equivalent run out from The Drive and back in your previous best performance video?

Edited May 15, 2021 by IRF

[RuffledBricks]

19 hours ago, IRF said:

 

But since the triple-hop in Out on a Limb would save you about 12 seconds (by my reckoning), I think it should more than outweigh those factors?

Possibly. The other thing to consider is how manageable it is. Although I rather arrogantly stated that the triple jump was "easy" in the other thread, on subsequent attempts I've found the timing requires some getting used to. Plus the point I made previously about the OOAL deathwarp not being that easy to pull off quickly still stands.

At any rate, I'll only be fully convinced once I actually see the two strats for the UTM-OOAL section side by side, and my JSW-playing is a bit rusty at the moment, so that's not a video I'll be able to make in a hurry!

Quote

But I'm fairly sure it's true of the out-and-back to Under the MegaTree - there aren't any guardians in either the core or the right-hand side of At the Foot of the MegaTree, so venturing out to Under the MegaTree and back should be just as easy on the way down the MegaTree as on the way up?

Doing that means you have to do a slow cycle on the Saw though. The MegaTree section has, to the best of my knowledge, been routed to minimise waiting time on all enemies within the Foot and Trunk rooms.

 

 

[IRF]

14 minutes ago, RuffledBricks said:

Doing that means you have to do a slow cycle on the Saw though.

I realised that, which is what led me on to consider whether doing the full length of Foot of MegaTree at ground floor level, from right to left, might minimise the waiting around for the saw.  (And it turns out that it does reduce the delay caused by the saw compared with going from top-right to bottom-left of Foot of MegaTree.)

And that in turn led me to wonder about the benefits of climbing up the MegaTree before venturing to the Off Licence (the subject of my next post after the one you've just quoted).

Edited May 15, 2021 by IRF

[RuffledBricks]

7 hours ago, IRF said:

In a similar vein, if you are kamikazeing a life somewhere in the MegaTree (whether it be in Out on a Limb, Under the MegaTree or Cuckoo's Nest), then wouldn't it make more sense to do that before walking all the way to the Off Licence?  So that the traverse along the ground level of the equivalent of seven rooms - from the base of the MegaTree to the far end of the Off Licence, and all the way back again - is done with one less life needing to be printed on the status bar?

God, everyone really hates that walk to the Off Licence around here, don't they?

For the route you've mentioned, I'd imagine the difference would probably be quite ineffectual given that you withhold the Off License deathwarp life until later. There might be an argument to be made for doing two deathwarps in the MegaTree and then doing the Off Licence normally, but I'd rather have someone confirm that for sure with maths and science rather than having to try and do it manually to find out.

Quote

It might be worth doing an experiment by speedrunning the above sequence (starting with two remaining lives/music off), and see how it compares with the timing of the equivalent run out from The Drive and back in your previous best performance video?

Go on then. 😛