Multiplayer Manic Miner game design

[SteveSmith]

Hi all, I'm currently recreating Manic Miner as a multiplayer party game, where players all run around a level.  It's local multiplayer, not online.  However, I'm stuck on some game design questions, like how to determine who the winner on each level is, and should each player have their own flashing objects to collect or should it be a race to collect them first?  And any other thoughts on how you'd like to see a multiplayer Manic Miner work?

[jetsetdanny]

Thanks for asking about our ideas!

I would say it should be a race to collect the items. The items should be shared (everyone can collect all of them). Player sprites should be "neutral" and "incorporeal" in relation with each other, i.e. they could pass through each other without colliding or any other kind of effect.

If it's a multiplayer game with just the classic MM levels, I think the challenge may be that there are only up 5 keys (items) to collect on each level, and the fastest routes one needs to take to collect them are well known (even the maximum possible scores have been established thanks to human experience and crem's algorithms - see e.g. here and here). So the race would pretty much be down to players trying to execute this optimal route as efficiently as possible, wouldn't it? Perhaps adding multiple items (so that there are e.g. 20 to collect on each level) would help to make the game more interesting?

[SteveSmith]

Thanks for the feedback, some good ideas.  Agreed, I made the players "incorporeal" as crashing into each other and blocking was making it unplayable.  Another issue was the "dropping" platforms since once they dropped, other players then couldn't get across (my solution was to have the platforms raise back up again after a short time).

My concern about only having one set of keys for all players is that (certainly on the first level) the one player that is slightly in front of the others is almost guaranteed to get all the keys, and the other players feel like they might as well give up, especially if they get killed and go back to the start.  I think your solution of adding lots of keys, so players can take different routes, sounds like a great idea.

[Spider]

I'm slightly reminded of the 'Ovine' (if I recall correctly) online games where you could have many multiple players and have different JSW style levels.

Its an excellent idea @SteveSmith and I look forward to seeing 🙂

EDIT... I will concur its best if possible to have multiple sets of items, because in say MM if one player reaches it, the others will not be happy! , JSW could be similar as if its object totals players may run for The Off Licence immediately for an instant topup of items. Not sure how you're coding it and what language but in theory at least an array of some description if possible should assist with multiple items, as in can define the objects for each player.

[CPL]

I remember playing the multiplayer Jet Set Willy online many years ago (I wonder what happened to that). It was a lot of fun, but it had a few major issues - the main one being that once you'd figured out an optimum route you could nearly always win in any race.

I know it's a weird thing to equate it to, but Mario Kart battles sprang to mind. Although the original levels would be fun, I feel like you need arenas. Assuming you're writing this for modern hardware - there's no reason to limit the screen scaling to the size of the classic screens.

I also feel like an element of randomness - Mario Kart pickups or Worms style drops - would make this more fun. Double-speed walking? Spring boots for extra high jumps? Wall gloves to climb up the sides? Freeze Ray to stop other players in their tracks for a few seconds? Something that lets you steal collected objects from the next player you touch? I'm sure there could be plenty of good ideas.

 

[SteveSmith]

1 hour ago, Spider said:

I'm slightly reminded of the 'Ovine' (if I recall correctly) online games where you could have many multiple players and have different JSW style levels.

Its an excellent idea @SteveSmith and I look forward to seeing 🙂

EDIT... I will concur its best if possible to have multiple sets of items, because in say MM if one player reaches it, the others will not be happy! , JSW could be similar as if its object totals players may run for The Off Licence immediately for an instant topup of items. Not sure how you're coding it and what language but in theory at least an array of some description if possible should assist with multiple items, as in can define the objects for each player.

Thanks.  I googled Ovine though, and couldn't find anything?  However, having each player collect their own set of keys (but in the same place for all players) seems to work really well, as it turns it into a memory game as each player has to remember which keys they have already collected.  It also means that no-one knows exactly who is in the lead, so players don't feel like they've got a lost cause.

[Norman Sword]

 

[Spider]

Thanks Norman for the video. 🙂

Steve , its not there anymore unfortunately (afaik) and it was a few years since I last did use it.

I'm half confident others on here will know the site I mean, I'm not 100% it was Ovine but hopefully you'll get a response.

[jetsetdanny]

It was https://www.ovine.net/. It's still there, and it shows a link to JSW Online, but the link redirects to http://www.eyecon64.com/. I don't think the original site can be found online any more.

While it was still there, once I downloaded what was probably supposed to be an offline version, or something like that. It is attached. I can see it runs on my Windows 10 machine, but when I try to connect to a game, it asks for an IP address. This is as far as I can get with it, but perhaps someone else will get it to run properly 🙂 .

Jet Set Willy Online.zip

[SteveSmith]

I don't know if anyone listens to RGDS ( https://retrogamingdailyshow.libsyn.com/ ).  A few times this year Kingy has mentioned regular Thursday night multiplayer JSW sessions.  Presumably they host the game themselves?  I've never joined in though, but it sounds like fun.