manic986 Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 Hi all, I never knew that Manic Miner was so popular. I have remembered this game fondly from when I was a kid and I bought it for my 48k Spectrum. Anyway, many things happened along the way as they did to all of us I am sure but MM has always been in my head. My son (7) recently has been playing with a Nintendo and I found myself wanting to show him MM. I discovered an emulated version in a browser and we enjoyed it. He started learning scratch at a game class recently so I thought I'd give it a go also. One thing led to another and I found myself trying to program MM in scratch wondering how far I would get. I'm a bit particular about these things so I wanted it to play like the original. Scratch is a very annoying language for this project and in a way I'm sorry I started it but I have to finish it now. I don't have that much time so its going slowly but it is moving forward. Anyway, I posted a few videos on youtube and "CPL MM" found me and mentioned this site. I had no idea that MM was so "active" and that there were so many versions and modifications. Quite exciting!!! I've learned a lot about MM along the way as I try to get different things to work. Some questions. Is there a list of semi-official names for the guardians on each level? I was trying to identify what the horizontal guardian on the mutant telephone level could be. I have called it an antenna so far. Its fun looking at the sprites in detail and recreating them. Scratch screen size is unfortunately fixed so I'm using weird sized sprites. Each of my cells is 15Lx16H. My current problem is the Return of the Alien Kong Beast, the banana under kong on the left... If you leave that banana until 2nd last, flip the kong switch to dunk him and then walk off the drop from the right to the left, in MM you can collect that banana as well as the other one on the way down.. I'm trying to work out why that happens as Sprite 7 (which is facing left and first sprite position in new column) has all Willy ink in the right most byte of Miner Willy. The banana ends up overlapping with the left bytes of WIlly's sprite but there is no ink in that half of the sprite. Looking at the code, it is looking for the attribute ink of the item to turn white to detect if Willy collects the item or not. So does willy's white ink for both left and right byte sides affect this even if there is no ink bits set in the left byte? I guess it must. Sorry, never actually played with this on an actual spectrum and on the emulator, playing MM, the key is collected before the redraw I think so I can't see it. Anyway - hello out there! Great to be here. There is a lot to read on this site... Oh. I guess I should probably post a link to my scratch videos so you can see how things look so far: jetsetdanny and Spider 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDuck Posted July 16 Report Share Posted July 16 5 hours ago, manic986 said: My current problem is the Return of the Alien Kong Beast, the banana under kong on the left... If you leave that banana until 2nd last, flip the kong switch to dunk him and then walk off the drop from the right to the left, in MM you can collect that banana as well as the other one on the way down.. I'm trying to work out why that happens as Sprite 7 (which is facing left and first sprite position in new column) has all Willy ink in the right most byte of Miner Willy. The banana ends up overlapping with the left bytes of WIlly's sprite but there is no ink in that half of the sprite. Looking at the code, it is looking for the attribute ink of the item to turn white to detect if Willy collects the item or not. So does willy's white ink for both left and right byte sides affect this even if there is no ink bits set in the left byte? I guess it must. Sorry, never actually played with this on an actual spectrum and on the emulator, playing MM, the key is collected before the redraw I think so I can't see it. Welcome to the forum and good to see more people remaking the game - I think it'll probably live forever. As for the quoted part, the short answer is "yes". Willy's sprite is always two cells wide, even when every single "ON" pixel sits within a single cell width. jetsetdanny and manic986 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manic986 Posted July 16 Author Report Share Posted July 16 2 hours ago, DigitalDuck said: Welcome to the forum and good to see more people remaking the game - I think it'll probably live forever. As for the quoted part, the short answer is "yes". Willy's sprite is always two cells wide, even when every single "ON" pixel sits within a single cell width. Ok. Thanks I figured that must be the way it worked. I have been using scratch sprite collision detection from the Items point of view to collect so I'll have to rework that bit and do it from Willy's perspective and it should give the same behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manic986 Posted July 16 Author Report Share Posted July 16 One other question... I noticed this really cool version of the game called Bob "Manic-4-NOOBS" by @Bob The Polar Bear. I'd love to add those levels as a theme to my Scratch version as I love the colours and the execution of the design. I haven't played it but just seen the YouTube video and it looks wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymbolShift Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 Welcome manic986! Using a visual (drag and drop) language like Scratch for a MM remake is not ideal, but it looks like you have managed to navigate around any limitations very well. Fantastic job! Looking forward to seeing the final project, and what comes next... 😀 manic986, jetsetdanny and UncleWan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manic986 Posted July 18 Author Report Share Posted July 18 Thanks @SymbolShift. Yeah. It is not ideal by more than a long short especially anything data related. Actually your name just reminded me of myself and my cousin typing in basic games out of the INPUT magazine... Neither of us knew what the ':' character was called and we used to call it "red-zed" because of the keys your pressed. He used to call out the code and I would type it in. Good times. jetsetdanny and SymbolShift 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manic986 Posted July 18 Author Report Share Posted July 18 I thought some folks might like to see this. My cavern format for the Scratch project lightly mimics the original MM room format. There is a bit less freedom in scratch but I'm trying to make all my levels self described and thus end up with something I can edit in vim before pasting it in to scratch as a list of characters. Here is what the first Kong level looks like without spaces and newlines removed. Currently the only special level is the last level (whatever that is) Miner.Willy.meets.the.Kong.Beast W.V.......V......W..W..........W W................W..W..........W W............I.FFW...........FFW W................W.............W W................W.............W WFFF.....FFFFFF..WFF...........W W.............I..W...FFFF.....FW W.FFF............W.........F...W W.I.....FFF......W.............W W................WFFFFF........W WF..........FFF..W.........FFFFW W........FF......W.............W W...FF...........W....FFFFF....W W..........RRRWPPWFF.........I.W W.............WPPW.....X.......W WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW ................weedy........1.2 ................brick........162 dotty........1.4................ plant........0.4stalictite...0.5 banana.......................... level8..........02.14.0.128..... switch..1.06.00.0.17.11.1.02.0.6 switch..2.18.00.0.15.02.0.02.0.6 Hbarrel.......0.01.09.09.14.7................1.4 Hbarrel.......1.11.15.11.12.0.11.18..........1.3 Hbarrel.......0.18.21.18.08.0................0.5 Vkong.........3.0.032.232.15.032.4.2.2.0.6...1.4 jetsetdanny and SymbolShift 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymbolShift Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 6 hours ago, manic986 said: Thanks @SymbolShift. Yeah. It is not ideal by more than a long short especially anything data related. Actually your name just reminded me of myself and my cousin typing in basic games out of the INPUT magazine... Neither of us knew what the ':' character was called and we used to call it "red-zed" because of the keys your pressed. He used to call out the code and I would type it in. Good times. Red-zed! that's a good one. I used to spend hours on end typing in those magazine listings, only to come across a printing smudge near the end and attempt to decipher it. manic986 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDuck Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 3 hours ago, manic986 said: I thought some folks might like to see this. My cavern format for the Scratch project lightly mimics the original MM room format. There is a bit less freedom in scratch but I'm trying to make all my levels self described and thus end up with something I can edit in vim before pasting it in to scratch as a list of characters. Here is what the first Kong level looks like without spaces and newlines removed. Currently the only special level is the last level (whatever that is) Miner.Willy.meets.the.Kong.Beast W.V.......V......W..W..........W W................W..W..........W W............I.FFW...........FFW W................W.............W W................W.............W WFFF.....FFFFFF..WFF...........W W.............I..W...FFFF.....FW W.FFF............W.........F...W W.I.....FFF......W.............W W................WFFFFF........W WF..........FFF..W.........FFFFW W........FF......W.............W W...FF...........W....FFFFF....W W..........RRRWPPWFF.........I.W W.............WPPW.....X.......W WFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFW ................weedy........1.2 ................brick........162 dotty........1.4................ plant........0.4stalictite...0.5 banana.......................... level8..........02.14.0.128..... switch..1.06.00.0.17.11.1.02.0.6 switch..2.18.00.0.15.02.0.02.0.6 Hbarrel.......0.01.09.09.14.7................1.4 Hbarrel.......1.11.15.11.12.0.11.18..........1.3 Hbarrel.......0.18.21.18.08.0................0.5 Vkong.........3.0.032.232.15.032.4.2.2.0.6...1.4 This is very similar to the format I used for Manic Miner Redux: Miner Willy meets the Kong Beast Spectrum @ x a x @b @ @ @ @ @ @ @ + cc@ --@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @--- ------ @-- @ @ + @ ---- -@ @ --- @ - @ @ + --- @ @ @ @----- @ @- --- @ ----@ @ -- d @ @ -- d ----- @ @ >>>@ @-- + @ @ @ @ z @ @------------------------------@ red 0000 blank black - 0001 floor b.red = 0002 crumble red @ 0003 wall b.yellow b.red > 0704 rconvey b.green z 0008 nasty green x 0709 nasty cyan + 0710 item b.magenta a 0711 switch yellow black a>e d>f hg1xright=18 b 0711 switch yellow black b>g c>h kn0state=1 score=2500 c 0001 floor b.red d 0003 wall b.yellow b.red e 1111 floor yellow f 0000 blank black g 1111 floor yellow h 0000 blank black 0000 willy 2 13 0 0 white 0708 hguard 9 13 1 9 -2 b.green 0708 hguard 11 11 11 15 1 b.magenta 0708 hguard 18 7 18 21 2 cyan 0716 kong 15 0 0 12 4 b.green 0724 portal 15 13 yellow blue I guess it's just natural to want a text-based implementation. manic986 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Sword Posted July 18 Report Share Posted July 18 And nothing like the Z80 - zx spectrum listing I use in Manic Jet Set Willy V3.02 RM_MM07: defb %00101010,%00010001,%00001010,%00001001,%11110000,%11110100,%10111000,%10000100 defb %01110000,%10000001,%00110000,%10000001,%00010101,%01001001,%01001101,%10100100 defb %00100110,%10011000,%00100010,%01001111,%00001001,%01011001,%00000100,%11001100 defb %10001000,%01110110,%01000001,%00101101,%01010001,%10011100,%10110001,%00000011 defb %11101100,%11010110,%11000110,%01001011,%10100001,%00001101,%11101000,%10110101 defb %11000010,%10000010,%00111100,%10000010,%10000011,%00000111,%01011110,%01000000 defb %00000010,%00000000,%10101000,%00000000,%11000000,%00100101,%00100101 Control %0001000$0 slice #00 tiles #42,#01 tiles #72,#02 tiles #04,#03 shave 4 tiles #05,#11 tiles #06,#1A tiles #44,#1B edge #02,#1C tiles #AB,#87 tiles #AF,#8E tiles #3F,#80 tiles #A2,#01 Control_check spx MM_S_12,9 spx MM_S_13,11 spx MM_S_14,18 spxe MM_S_15,15 mask1_text #00,"M","i","n","e","ò","W","i","l","l","ù","m","e","e","t","ó",2,9 Spider, manic986 and jetsetdanny 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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