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Thanks crem. It's amazing how far Willy manages to get in that video before he gets hit by the solar beam at all ! In fact, Willy only passes through the beam on three occasions - and two of those are unavoidable in order to reach the top-right item and get back again. I doubt that it is possible to do much better than you did, to be honest. Also noticeable at one point is that Willy touches the solar beam but only four units of air get sapped in that moment, rather than eight units. He is in such close proximity to the top-right guardian at the time (without pixel-colliding with it) that part of his sprite is overshadowed by the guardian's yellow INK - so only one cell occupied by Willy's sprite contains the white INK which is detected by the solar beam routine as triggering 4xAir decrements. The video also confirms my theory that when Willy is jumping through the beam and is non cell-aligned (so that his sprite spans across three character-rows), the beam saps 12 units of air for a period.

[Duplicate post]

Is there any way of seeing how that breaks down in terms of: - Frames of the game when the solar beam passes horizontally through Willy, or Willy is passing through the vertical solar beam whilst he is cell-row aligned [in which case the beam will sap 8 units of air]; versus: - Frames when Willy is jumping or falling through the vertical solar beam and Willy's sprite is spanning across three cell-rows [in which case the beam will sap 8 units of air during that frame]. The difference between Danny's and the algorithm's performances might be explained by the above difference in the way that the beam saps air (and therefore potential points)?

I've edited the highscore table for Solar Power Generator to give crem's algorithm (current) first place for that cavern. Sadly, crunchy_frog has fallen off the bottom of the league. (When it comes to the crunch, they need to exhibit more nifty frog-like leaps if they want to be restored to the table! 😄)

I like the sound effect in some of Norman Sword's modified MM games, which lets you know when the air supply is being sapped by the beam without you having to closely monitor the air bar (as that takes your eye off the playing area of the screen).

Good stuff. Just to be pedantic, does the cavern 6 entry in that post need updating as well (as you've since completed it without standing still in the first frame)?

Willy was passing time, waiting for the rolling rock beneath to get out of the way. I don't think it could have been completed any quicker if he hadn't done that jump you refer to. 🤔

The difference in final score between Danny and the algorithm for 'Solar Power Generator' is eight points. This equates to Danny having spent a single additional timeframe with the beam passing through two cells occupied by Willy (4 extra 'saps' of air per cell occupied by Willy's white INK). Crem, will you be updating your earlier post to reflect the sequence of movements which led to your improved score in the Solar cavern?: It occurs to me that the sequence of movements in that cavern could be re-run (perhaps using Norman Sword's idea for an automated MM tool?) in a modified game that has the solar beam switched off (POKE 36230,24 should do the trick), and that would then enable us to quantify precisely how many points were lost as a result of the solar beam's effect.

Well done, crem and your algorithm! There were a couple of significant changes in the route taken this time, compared with the previous recording which can be seen here http://jswmm.co.uk/topic/580-automated-generation-of-manic-miner-speedrunwalkthrough/?do=findComment&comment=12887 Firstly, the fact that Willy collected the items in a different order, this time grabbing the bottom-right item first (which is of course the closest one to Willy's starting position, so that probably saves some walking time). Secondly, this time Willy avoided using the platform with the blue horizontal guardian on it as a step up to the top platform, preferring instead to climb up there via the centrally placed platform [the one which lies directly above Willy's head at the very start of the cavern]. That is a significant tactic in terms of minimising the number of jumps that pass through the solar beam whilst it is shining straight down from its source (reducing the amount of air sapped by the beam, compared with the route which sticks closer to the right).

crem's algorithm doesn't appear (yet) in the listings for The Final Barrier in the first post in this thread. (Although it is included there in the description on the download page.)

It is currently spelled as "crem" in the Download section, but as "creme" in the associated Discussion Topic. 🤔

Can your algorithm hack into the cavern security system and turn off the solar beam? That would help! 🤣

I just checked, and I can confirm that your score for the solar cavern was 1125 in all three cases! Incidentally, in the process of finding the relevant part of the video of your walkthrough of the SP version, I observed the second Amoebatron cavern, and it occurred to me that there might be different possible maximum scores in that cavern (and in The Warehouse), because the guardian sprites are different (so it might be easier to sneak past them sooner?)

I think that we can now safely say that a higher total score than 39,500 is possible (but 40,000 is unlikely - unless crem's algorithm manages to hack into the cavern security system and switch off the solar beam!! 😁)

I would say good luck to the algorithm if it hopes to beat JetSetDanny's score of 1125 points for the Solar cavern!

Have you done the second Amoebatrons cavern yet? You didn't mention it above, as far as I can see.

Oops! I was looking at the wrong post!

You have omitted to mention the improvement in Wacky Amoebatrons? (Also, I don't think you've uploaded a video of this improved performance? The last one you uploaded for that cavern was slower than the existing human record.)

In a way, Norman's data stream is similar to a manual method I sometime use when approaching a pixel-perfect jump. e.g. travelling along the conveyor in Central Cavern (where the conveyor is doing the work in terms of horizontal movement), in order to ensure that I jump at the last possible moment (so as to land on the 'intermediate' platform, bypassing the one which occupies the same character row as the conveyor itself), I do the following: Keep the in-game Pause key (usually 'A') pressed, and make rapid stabs at a non-functional key (such as '1') to make WIlly progress one frame at a time along the conveyor. That way the game pauses in between each frame of movement (if I'm still pressing 'A' throughout). Then when I can see that Willy is teetering on the brink on the conveyor, I hit the jump key, and only then let do I go of the pause key.

Will the High Score table on the other thread be updated to give first billing for that cavern to the algorithm machine? (And what does the machine physically look like? - is it a clockwork robot like the one in the Central Cavern that has achieved this feat?!?)

Depending on what else emerges from the rest of the caverns, a possible total score of 39500 points after 20 caverns may be within reach...

Ah yes, that's because it resets the rope's position so that it arrives a fraction sooner at the right place for Willy's escape from the crabs! It could have gone either way, but it turns out to be slightly beneficial to the speed.

If Willy comes under the 'shadow' of a guardian then he (or part of him) can change colour. He only gets killed if one of his pixels collides with a guardian pixel though.

It won't make a difference in some caverns, where you have to wait around later on for a moment anyway - e.g. for the bottom penguin in the Cold Room to move out of the way of the portal. But it may well tweak the score up in other caverns?

Regarding the above, I meant to point out that the same is also true of using the WRITETYPER feature in a JSW128/JSW64 game. i.e. If you have activated Forcefield and anti-Gravity, then you can use WRITETYPER to get around without risk of accidentally suffering an IDS.