Norman Sword Posted April 10, 2021 Report Share Posted April 10, 2021 When I added the original change the beam to red its purpose was to enhance the point of contact with the light beam. I also added sound in some versions. I changed the code as shown above to enhance a technical point, and that change of code seems to be what you are copying. The change was and still is just a change for technical analysis, at game speed it presents just a slight flicker of Willy and does nothing to enhance playing the game. I will not be changing any version I write to feature a clinical analysis feature instead of what I already use. The beam will stay red. crem and jetsetdanny 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 10, 2021 Report Share Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) Fair enough, I just thought the tweak I suggested would assist with the clinical analysis to further the aim of improving the maximum MM score, which is the primary purpose of this thread. 🙂 (Actually, crem's primary purpose when he started this thread was to find the fastest MM completion time, which isn't quite the same thing - e.g. avoid killing Kong speeds up the completion but doesn't maximise the score - but in the context of the solar cavern it seems to amount to the same thing, and time spent processing 'air saps' slows down the game at an infinitesimal level!) But in any case, your version (red beam from first contact with Willy under termination) inspired me to create an adjusted version which does what I want it to do (beam red only when in contact with Willy), so everyone's happy! 🙂 Edited April 10, 2021 by IRF jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsetdanny Posted April 10, 2021 Report Share Posted April 10, 2021 I am getting ready to create an individual page for Norman Sword's "Manic Miner: creme de la creme" on JSW Central. A couple of questions: 1. Am I right that the latest version of "MM: creme de la creme" was released in this message? The highest achievable score in the BB version being 39,530 points? 2. It has been established elsewhere (or perhaps here in this thread, I can't tell right now) that the highest achievable score in the SP version is 1 point higher than in the BB version (because the Warehouse can be done more efficiently by taking a different route, due to the difference in guardian sprites which allows a jump that is impossible in the BB version). In view of this, are you by any chance going to release an SP-based version of "Manic Miner: creme de la creme" to show the maximum scores that can be achieved there, Norman Sword? IRF and Spider 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 On 4/10/2021 at 7:12 PM, jetsetdanny said: It has been established elsewhere (or perhaps here in this thread, I can't tell right now) that the highest achievable score in the SP version is 1 point higher than in the BB version (because the Warehouse can be done more efficiently by taking a different route, due to the difference in guardian sprites which allows a jump that is impossible in the BB version). Just to be pedantic, I tried the same jump in the BB version of The Warehouse, and that route/jump is possible, but only if you wait for one time-frame (to allow the bulkier 'thresher' guardian) before jumping. And that one frame's delay means that you can only match the best score achievable in BB via the other route. jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Sword Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) This is an edit of version 4. The file I have done all the Major edits on is around version 9d. The only problem with going to the latest version, which looks and feels better, is the fact that it is 100% a playable game. This version named here as LASTv.tap is a backward edit of version 9d. I lifted the data from that version and inserted it into version 4, I then edited it to include the Warehouse data from the Software Projects version of the game. This Version has only one purpose and that is to display the game being auto played. (e.g. for research) the game has been edited to remove the parts that enable playing. Which makes key selection awkward. On the title screen press {K} to bring up a sub menu. In the sub menu:- Press {ENTER} to play - This version is unplayable Press {L} to auto play the cavern Press{Z} and {X} to select a cavern to begin playing from Press {V} to change the version. The version played will only use the graphics from the Bug Byte game. In the warehouse the vertical sprite graphic will be changed to the sprite graphic from the software projects game. The middle of the lower line will display the version being played (in game mode) , or in the sub menu, the graphic next to the portal will indicate the version selected. The harvester blade for Bug Byte and the Penrose triangle for software projects. [And before you check, yes it will change the playing room graphics, if {V} is pressed while displaying the warehouse in the sub menu.] ----------------------------------------------------------- About the auto play data The auto play data has in some instances been replaced with mostly data I generated. Their was no difference in score between the auto generated data and my data. Since my data looks less frantic, I used that data where i had it. IRF edited the Warehouse data for the Bug byte version of auto move, so that is used. He also edited the data for another room, which turned out to be pretty close to the data I already had. ------------------------------------------------------------ To rapid auto play is press {K} on the title screen followed by {L} - the game will auto play one complete cycle back to the central cavern. LASTv.tap <<< the auto play game file Auto Play score for Bug byte version is 39,530 Auto play score for Software Projects version is 39,531 Edited April 13, 2021 by Norman Sword moving imbedded data crem, IRF, Spider and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsetdanny Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 Thanks for this new version, Norman Sword! 👍 I am almost ready to launch an individual page of "creme de la creme" on JSW Central. In fact, I'm glad I've waited with it until this release of yours, but it means I do have to update some info I've got ready to put online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 I wonder whether - for the sake of completeness, and if it doesn't require much effort (and if the data would fit into the game file) - it might be worth inserting the alternate sprites into 'Amoebatrons' Revenge' [and I suppose the different Fire cell/item bitmaps in 'Processing Plant'] for the Software Projects version of the automatic MM? Even though, as far as crem's algorithm can tell, those aspects have no bearing on the maximum achievable score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsetdanny Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 I have now created an individual page on JSW Central devoted to "Manic Miner: creme de la creme". Norman Sword, crem, Ian and everyone else who has been involved or is following this topic: please let me know if you have any suggestions for modifications of that page's contents. I have tried to describe this variant as best I could and give due credit to everyone involved, but I am sure there is room for improvement in the info published there 🙂 . The page features a full screenshot gallery, but if Norman Sword follows Ian's suggestion expressed above, I will be happy to update the screenshots accordingly. MtM, Spider, JianYang and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 5 hours ago, jetsetdanny said: I have tried to describe this variant as best I could and give due credit to everyone involved, but I am sure there is room for improvement in the info published there Danny, here are a few suggested tweaks in bold: a user nicknamed "crem" shared his attempts to generate new strats for speedrunners for Manic Miner. He created an algorithm that uses was using mostly a brute force approach, which worked pretty well, yielding various optimizations, some micro, some quite substantial. During the development of this topic, Norman Sword released TAP files presenting the first rooms caverns of Manic Miner played by scripted movement. He altered the keyboard input routine to accept input from a data stream. The data stream was simply a file he would write, with values for the various inputs (left, right and jump). The room cavern was played and the data was taken from the data stream one item entry at a time, which simulated the keyboard input. ("Item" could lead to confusion with the game's collectable items!) It was followed by some improved editions, including a tiny improvement in the overall score achieved thanks to suggestions made by Ian Rushforth with the initial focus of the algorithm on the fastest 'real world' completion time being replaced by a concentration on maximising the score obtained. (It is generally the case that completing the caverns in the fastest time will maximise the remaining air supply, and thus in turn yield the highest score; but there are exceptions, such as taking a detour to collect the bonus points for the optional 'Kong flips' in caverns [8] and [12], and selecting a route through the 'Solar Power Generator' [19] that minimises Willy's contact with the air-sapping light beam.) (I'm not bothered about not getting a credit here; most of the work has been done by crem, his algorithm, and Norman Sword.) jetsetdanny and JianYang 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Sword Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) The change in sprite data between Software projects and Bug Byte does throw up a problem in Amoebatrons' Revenge. Unless another route is listed, then the present data gets Willy killed fairly early on. ( e.g. the return journey along the lowest level platforms.Willy is killed by the first sprite when doing his shuffle back and forth, to do the 2nd jump) I also looked at my data that was extracted for the version of Manic Miner that plays both versions. Either the data is wrong or the data changes by one pixel between the bug byte and the software project game. (Skylab landing bay) This change came to light when I was checking what data actually changes between the two versions. If I could find a picture of the skylab screen from the software projects game, then I can confirm change. Just at the moment I have more pressing things to do elsewhere. Edited April 14, 2021 by Norman Sword jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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