crem Posted April 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) On 4/2/2021 at 7:13 PM, IRF said: Could the implication of the bug mentioned above possibly be that there is a better final score to be achieved for this cavern than the one you have reported so far? ...and I found the bug. 🙂 Lvl19, Score=1137 The same number of frames as the previously known best, but manages to have 4 more points due to less solar beam exposure. R R R R . Q R . Q R R . Q R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R Q R . Q . R Q . R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R Q Q Q M . . . . . . . . . . . . QM . . . . . . . . . . . . R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q . . . . . . . R R R R R R . . . . . . . Q Q R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . R . Q . R . R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q R R . R R Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q R Q R . Q R Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q . R R Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q QM . . .  lvl19.mp4 lvl19.rzx Edited April 4, 2021 by crem Spider, IRF, jetsetdanny and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 4, 2021 Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 Would you be able to provide a similar column of data to what you did before, showing the number of 'air saps' by the solar beam in each frame of the game? It seems to me from watching the latest video that Willy only passes through the solar beam twice? (The bare minimum necessary in order to reach the top-right item.) Nifty work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crem Posted April 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, IRF said: Would you be able to provide a similar column of data to what you did before Here it is (the rightmost column; two others are frame number and "air left + some constant"). lvl19-air.mp4 IRF and jetsetdanny 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 4, 2021 Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 (edited) Thanks, crem. I've just been scrutinising both the previous best score video and the current one. The previous one had an additional encounter with the light beam (at the point when Willy is on the conveyor), sapping 24 units of air. However, during the jump through the vertical beam to reach the top-right item, in the previous video Willy benefits from being in close proximity to the yellow horizontal guardian when he makes that jump, meaning that the beam doesn't recognise the presence of part of Willy's sprite (which is overshadowed by the guardian's attribute). Therefore only 64 units of air are sapped during that encounter with the beam, compared with 84 units in the latest performance (difference of 20). During the final jump back through the beam from the top-right corner, 72 units of air are sapped in both videos. Hence the net improvement in the latest walkthrough is only 4 points. *** This analysis has indirectly led me to discover something else about the solar cavern. In SkoolKid's Manic Miner disassembly, he reports the fact that, in the very first frame after Willy enters the Solar Power Generator, the blue vertical guardian's INK colour bleeds into the platform immediately below it (even though the guardian only occupies two character-rows at that point in time): https://skoolkid.github.io/manicminer/reference/bugs.html#blueShadow It's just occurred to me that this bug of the game engine means that a guardian (or rather, the 'shadow' of the guardian) can deflect the solar beam even when the beam isn't passing through it! You can see that occurring in the attached screenshot (beneath the blue vertical guardian, which at that moment in time is cell-aligned in the two character-rows above the approaching beam). In some circumstances, that might actually be beneficial to Willy. (Although at other times, the bug might send the solar beam in Willy's direction when logically it shouldn't!) Edited April 17, 2021 by IRF jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Sword Posted April 4, 2021 Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 The latest auto High score 39530 Â Â Â mms5.tap crem, JianYang, jetsetdanny and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 5, 2021 Report Share Posted April 5, 2021 Thanks, Norman. If there's another update in future, perhaps you could take the opportunity to clean up the datastream in Processing Plant, as per this post (it's no biggie though):  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crem Posted April 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2021 On 4/3/2021 at 12:03 PM, IRF said: However, in the same post (see below), it also states that the Cavern 6 datastream also had the 'First frame stationary' bug. Did you check that that didn't have any effect on the possible final score either? I didn't do the full run, but I started it once watched some "intermediate" bests (the fastest way Willy can get to the particular parts of the level). All those routes had waiting somewhere, so I concluded that waiting would be unavoidable in the final run too, that one extra frame won't help.  11 hours ago, crem said: The same number of frames as the previously known best, but manages to have 4 more points due to less solar beam exposure.  9 hours ago, IRF said: The previous one had an additional encounter with the light beam (at the point when Willy is on the conveyor), sapping 24 units of air. Yeah, actually I was wrong when said it's the same number of frames but 4 points less solar exposure. Indeed, the route is much longer now, but having one intersection fewer with the solar beam compensates it. Spider and jetsetdanny 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 5, 2021 Report Share Posted April 5, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, crem said: Yeah, actually I was wrong when said it's the same number of frames but 4 points less solar exposure. Indeed, the route is much longer now, but having one intersection fewer with the solar beam compensates it. No, I think it actually is the same number of frames as your previous best score-run (judging by the length of the video and the final positions of the guardians in each case). What I was trying to say is that, in your latest video, Willy avoids the (previously) first contact with the beam - which saves him from 24 saps - but now his first contact (which was previously his second contact with it) is more deadly by 20 saps compared with before. So the net reduction in total saps across the cavern is 4 - which equates to a total score that is 4 points higher (because both runs finished after precisely the same number of frames). Edited April 5, 2021 by IRF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Sword Posted April 5, 2021 Report Share Posted April 5, 2021 The IRF data stream for the processing plant does not work (close, but no cigar) I have corrected the data stream (as below)  Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q . . . . . . . R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . . . . . . M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . .   jetsetdanny, Spider and IRF 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRF Posted April 5, 2021 Report Share Posted April 5, 2021 Sorry, I can see where I made a mistake. I forgot to use an 'R' to turn Willy around after he drops down at the upper-left part of the cavern (after the first few jumps). This datastream is what I was aiming for (N.B. I've crossed out/underlined one 'R', and replaced it with an earlier one highlighted in bold) - the jump over the BRIGHT yellow Pac-man leaves Willy in exactly the right place to wait for the magenta Pac-man to turn around and start moving away: Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q . . . . . . . R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . . . . . . M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Q Q Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . RM . . . . . . . . . . . . R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . . Q QM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . R R RM . . . . . . . . . . . .  Don't worry if you've already updated your automated file and can't be bothered to make the tweak. jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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