Manic Jet Set Willy.

[IRF]

1 hour ago, jetsetdanny said:

I did not report it because I assumed the game was not necessarily supposed to be identical to the original ones in every aspect. As Andy said above, it's a remarkable feat anyway

Based on this post of Norman Sword's: https://jswmm.co.uk/topic/649-manic-jet-set-willy/?do=findComment&comment=14251

... the general ethos of this project seems to have been to compress the two games into one, not to change the data (other than where necessary to allow fix certain critical bugs, to allow the game to be completed without loss of life).  I think most of the room/cavern layouts, guardian behaviour, etc have been faithfully replicated, but the odd unintentional difference may have crept in during the process of transferring the data.

However, I do think that the jerky movements of the horizontal guardians, as they turn around from moving rightwards to leftwards movement, is something that arises from a bug in the code which handles the movement of horizontal guardians.  I don't think it's likely that it was a deliberately designed feature?  Perhaps Norman Sword might wish to comment on this when he next visits the site?

**

BTW Danny, I've just noticed that in your post which directly follows after the one I've provided a link for above, you commented on how, like Andy, you had encountered more difficulty than usual in the Cuckoo's Nest (particularly when playing the game at the fastest speed).  As with Andy, I think this was probably because the saw turns around at the nest and comes at Willy much faster because in that moment it skips straight past two frames of animation (the 'turnaround bug', as I've started referring to it).

1 hour ago, jetsetdanny said:

And in "JSW" there is one thing you can do that you cannot do in the original: you can clear the two lowermost items on the left with a jump from the rope straight away, while in the original you need to swing on the rope back and forth before you can jump successfully. The difference saves you a few seconds. I believe "The Forgotten Abbey" is slightly different, too, at the ground level.

You didn't specify which rope room in the above quote, but I believe you are talking about The Cold Store?  Again, the Turnaround Bug is probably to blame (or, should I say, to be thanked, since you're reporting an improved performance here!) - the horizontal guardians fall into a different relative alignment with the phases of the rope's swing, and this happens relatively quickly after Willy enters the room because they all (except for the penguin on the floor) move within quite narrow bounds, so it doesn't take long for them to reach the edge of their ledges whereupon the bug makes them skip forward a few steps.

[IRF]

2 hours ago, jetsetdanny said:

In "MM", in "Attack of the Mutant Telephones" there is something about outmanoeuvring the slow-motion green horizontal guardian that is different (and it affects the subsequent moves).

Danny, I noticed that in your recording of the Mutant Telephones cavern, you collected the item that is located under the portal before the item in the middle of the cavern (to the right of the slow green horizontal guardian).  So it seems that the effect of the 'bug' on the timings of the guardians may have even driven you to change the order in which you collected the items in this case?  (So it affected not just the subsequent moves, but the preceding moves as well!)

[IRF]

10 hours ago, IRF said:

BTW Danny, I've just noticed that in your post which directly follows after the one I've provided a link for above, you commented on how, like Andy, you had encountered more difficulty than usual in the Cuckoo's Nest (particularly when playing the game at the fastest speed).  As with Andy, I think this was probably because the saw turns around at the nest and comes at Willy much faster because in that moment it skips straight past two frames of animation (the 'turnaround bug', as I've started referring to it).

Further investigation reveals that it's not so much the saw guardian turning around more quickly which makes this room tricky (the saw is already advancing leftwards towards Willy when he enters the room).  Rather, it's the rolling egg above the nest which bounces back more quickly from the outer edge of the nest, leaving Willy with less time to collect the item safely.

I've created two snapshot files with Willy in a 'safe place' inside the nest, one from an original(ish - no changes to Cuckoo's Nest) JSW file, and the other from Manic Jet Set Willy - see attached.  In both files, the game was paused when the egg had just reached the rightmost extent of its range (in its 'sloping down-to-the-right' frame of animation).

If you load up each file in turn, unpause the game (press the 1 key or something to unpause, not a jump/move key as that would put Willy in danger!), then you can see the different behaviour of a horizontal guardian as it turns around and starts to move left.

(I find it helps to keep the A-pause key depressed whilst doing quick jabs at the 1 key, in order to see the animation frame-by-frame.)

In original JSW, the egg remains balanced on the spot for a single time-frame (with no change of animation frame), then moves to its 'lying horizontal' position in the next time-frame, and then moves to its 'sloping down-to-the-left' frame of animation in the next time-frame.

In Manic JSW, the egg jumps straight from its 'sloping down-to-the-right' to its 'sloping down-to-the-left' frame of animation, as soon as you unpause the game, thereby missing out two animation frames.

N.B. In both files, when the egg reaches the leftmost extent of its range, it spends two time-frames in its 'balanced vertically' frame of animation, so the 'turnaround bug' doesn't affect the horizontal guardians when they are turning from leftwards to rightwards motion.

The consequence of this bug/feature/change is that in original JSW, it takes 13 time-frames for the rolling egg to get from its furthest position at the outer edge of the nest to a point underneath the item (which I believe is meant to be a tiny bird nesting atop the giant imposter egg?), whereas in Manic JSW, that same part of the egg's traverse only takes 11 time-frames.

JSW Cuckoo's Nest.z80 Manic JSW Cuckoo's Nest.z80

Edited March 17, 2022 by IRF

[Spider]

It does explain why I had much difficulty in this room. 🙂 Compared to the original.

I thought it was me out of practise 🤣🤣

[jetsetdanny]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:25 PM, IRF said:

You didn't specify which rope room in the above quote, but I believe you are talking about The Cold Store?  Again, the Turnaround Bug is probably to blame (or, should I say, to be thanked, since you're reporting an improved performance here!) - the horizontal guardians fall into a different relative alignment with the phases of the rope's swing, and this happens relatively quickly after Willy enters the room because they all (except for the penguin on the floor) move within quite narrow bounds, so it doesn't take long for them to reach the edge of their ledges whereupon the bug makes them skip forward a few steps.

Yes, I did mean The Cold Store, sorry I missed the name.

[jetsetdanny]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:51 PM, IRF said:

Danny, I noticed that in your recording of the Mutant Telephones cavern, you collected the item that is located under the portal before the item in the middle of the cavern (to the right of the slow green horizontal guardian).  So it seems that the effect of the 'bug' on the timings of the guardians may have even driven you to change the order in which you collected the items in this case?  (So it affected not just the subsequent moves, but the preceding moves as well!)

Yes, I believe this is indeed the case.

[jetsetdanny]

Thanks for your detailed analysis, Ian! It will be interesting to see if Norman Sword comments on your observations 🙂 .

[IRF]

1 hour ago, jetsetdanny said:

Thanks for your detailed analysis, Ian! It will be interesting to see if Norman Sword comments on your observations

I'd be particularly interested to hear from @Norman Sword whether or not the odd behaviour of the horizontal guardians (as they change from moving rightwards to moving leftwards) was a deliberate design feature, or a bug in the routine which moves the guardians. I suspect the latter, especially since it's asymmetrical and doesn't affect the guardians at the opposite extent of their bounds. 

[IRF]

The two attached snapshots are both from the cavern 'Wacky Amoebatrons' (one from original Manic Miner, the other from Manic Jet Set Willy), and comparing/contrasting them illustrates several subtle differences between the two games:

- The Coronavirus-esque vertical guardians animate more quickly in the original game (their 'pulsating' happens more quickly), compared with Manic JSW;

- The conveyor also animates more quickly in the original game (first and third pixel-rows are 'sheared' by two pixels per time-frame; those pixel-rows are moved along by a single pixel in Manic JSW - which causes the 'messy bedsheets' in Willy's Master Bedroom!);

- Observing the horizontal guardians moving along their platforms, you can see clearly the difference in behaviour between when they change direction at the rightmost extent of their range (some animation-frames are skipped in Manic JSW as the guardians turn around, but that's not the case in the original game), versus when they change direction at the leftmost end of their range (smooth, 'normal' behaviour in both games);

- Finally, I've just noticed that the cyan horizontal guardian in Manic Jet Set Willy's 'Wacky Amoebatrons' cavern moves at the faster rate (advancing every time-frame), whereas in the original Manic Miner this cyan horizontal guardian was of the 'slow-moving' type (advancing every alternate time-frame).

Manic Amoebatrons.z80 MJSW Amoebatrons.z80

[jetsetdanny]

Interesting comparison, Ian!

Norman Sword seems to be absent from these parts at present. I do hope he will be back soon 🙂 .