JSW Central

[IRF]

On 1/26/2022 at 4:44 AM, jetsetdanny said:

Jet Set Willy 64

I haven't yet played to completion "Ultimate Manic Miner"

Daniel, when you do get round to completing 'Ultimate Manic Miner', I recommend you use the version which I patched to fix the bug that affected the room 'Eugene Lair', which caused the Skylabs in that room to behave as Droplets (ie they no longer varied their horizontal position). My fix (which required a change to the game engine) brought the game in line with the author Igor Makovsky's original intentions (as expressed in a comment by him on the Yahoo! MMJSW forum).

Come to think of it, I don't think that patched version ever had an official release? I was in email contact with Igor about it at one point, he expressed gratitude for the suggested fix, and from memory had an intention to update the game himself at some point, including the fix. But that was several years ago now and I haven't heard anything from him since. My fixed version is probably attached to a topic here somewhere, but it would be nice if you could include it in the relevant entry at JSW Central?

UPDATE: I just checked, and I didn't actually attach a bug fixed gamefile in the topic that I created on this subject* back in the day. Rather, I included a list of the POKES which may be used to fix the game engine to allow for both functional Skylabs and Droplets in a single game. (John Elliott's Droplets patch for JSW64 permanently erases the code which determines the Skylabs' behaviour).

 

*The topic is called 'For fans of Ultimate Manic Miner', which in hindsight seems somewhat ironic (given Danny's subsequent description of how much criticism the game got when it was originally released - for its overuse of quirky features - which I wasn't aware of when I created the topic!) 

Edited February 7 by IRF

[IRF]

It seems that the above suggestion came too late for your initial walk through of UMM, as I've just noticed that you did complete it and uploaded a video of it to your YouTube channel.

However, the 'Eugene Lair' in that version looks a lot easier than (and not in the spirit of what) Igor originally intended*, so perhaps another walk-through if the bugfixed version could be put on your to-do list?

*Those volcanic flares are supposed to shoot up at different points in the cavern, in the same way that Skylabs drop down at different horizontal positions, so that nowhere is safe to stand for long!

For reference, the room in question can be seen 26 minute in to this video:

Now watch those flare-ups - because of the big they only pop up in two places - imagine trying to navigate around whilst the fireballs continually switch x-coordinates - a whole different proposition!! 

Edited February 7 by IRF

[jetsetdanny]

Ian, thank you for the fix! 🙂 

Regarding another video of a walkthrough of "Ultimate Manic Miner" on the JSW Central YouTube channel, generally speaking, I am not planning to do it and I *hope* I won't ever have to do it.

The reason for this is that my strong policy (at this time, at least) is not to repeat videos of any games on the channel. I don't want to fall into the trap of feeling an urge to create a new video every time I improve a score in a MM game or the completion time in a JSW game or whatever. I also want to avoid games having parallel videos on the channel (and I don't want to erase old ones in order to make room for the new ones). I have already improved some scores in MM games and have not made any new videos resulting from these improvements.

If a new version of a game is released, with the blessing of the original author, it will create a serious dilemma for me, because it would be a good reason to repeat the walkthrough and post another video. This is why I said I "hope" that this will not happen. I haven't had to deal with such a situation yet, because all of the games I have made videos of so far were released "long ago enough" not to have any further versions released.

Another strong principle I have is to release final versions of each game approved by the original author, *unless* the game is incompletable and there is no clear hope of reaching the author to produce or approve a bugfix. In such case, I would go ahead and showcase the game with a third-party bugfix. Another rule is that I would not present an incompletable game (except for special cases, perhaps, like the artistic modifications of the original JSW - it remains to be seen what I will do with them). Please note I am talking about fixing critical bugs here, the ones that make a game incompletable, not just any bugs.

You're right that your suggestion came too late for my video of "UMM" in that it has already been made. However, even if you had made it earlier, I couldn't have implemented it, because it would go against my principles: of the author's approval of the fix and of not bothering about non-critical bugs in gamma-released games. The situation could only have been different if the suggestion had been made earlier and if Igor had released an updated revision of the game before I set out to make the video.

Incidentally, there *are* some problems with Igor's old games. "Jet Set Willy 5: ZX Heroes" shows there are 255 items to collect - and there are 256 in fact (Igor might have fixed it in the past, because I remember Andrew Broad mentioning that he was in possession of a later version of the game than the one that had been released publicly, but Igor certainly did not release a fixed version). Also, his "Frosya the Cat" / "Frosya the Cat" Light Version game is still incompletable (only its third and final incarnation, "Jet Cat Frosya", can be completed), and these first two "incarnations" are probably also worth presenting. I will face this problem in the next few months, when their turn comes for the JSW Central videos. I will probably prepare bugfixed versions and try to get Igor to approve of them before making the videos.

[IRF]

19 hours ago, jetsetdanny said:

Ian, thank you for the fix! 🙂 

Regarding another video of a walkthrough of "Ultimate Manic Miner" on the JSW Central YouTube channel, generally speaking, I am not planning to do it and I *hope* I won't ever have to do it.

The reason for this is that my strong policy (at this time, at least) is not to repeat videos of any games on the channel. I don't want to fall into the trap of feeling an urge to create a new video every time I improve a score in a MM game or the completion time in a JSW game or whatever. I also want to avoid games having parallel videos on the channel (and I don't want to erase old ones in order to make room for the new ones). I have already improved some scores in MM games and have not made any new videos resulting from these improvements.

If a new version of a game is released, with the blessing of the original author, it will create a serious dilemma for me, because it would be a good reason to repeat the walkthrough and post another video. This is why I said I "hope" that this will not happen. I haven't had to deal with such a situation yet, because all of the games I have made videos of so far were released "long ago enough" not to have any further versions released.

Another strong principle I have is to release final versions of each game approved by the original author, *unless* the game is incompletable and there is no clear hope of reaching the author to produce or approve a bugfix. In such case, I would go ahead and showcase the game with a third-party bugfix. Another rule is that I would not present an incompletable game (except for special cases, perhaps, like the artistic modifications of the original JSW - it remains to be seen what I will do with them). Please note I am talking about fixing critical bugs here, the ones that make a game incompletable, not just any bugs.

You're right that your suggestion came too late for my video of "UMM" in that it has already been made. However, even if you had made it earlier, I couldn't have implemented it, because it would go against my principles: of the author's approval of the fix and of not bothering about non-critical bugs in gamma-released games. The situation could only have been different if the suggestion had been made earlier and if Igor had released an updated revision of the game before I set out to make the video.

At the very least, will you consider doing a play test of the UMM room 'Eugene Lair' with my Pokes applied (so it's 'as manufacturer intended')? Maybe you could upload it here at JSWMM if you don't think it belongs on your YouTube channel?

***

Incidentally, your walkthrough doesn't display a couple of 'Easter Egg' rooms in UMM which it isn't necessary to visit in order to complete the game (namely 'Manic Miner Pub' and 'The Mine Vehicle Department'). The latter of which contains a personal tribute (in the form of labelled sprites) to several of the 'old skool' people from the MM & JSW scene, including yourself! (Unless there is another 'Danny' on the scene?)

Edited February 8 by IRF

[jetsetdanny]

6 hours ago, IRF said:

At the very least, will you consider doing a play test of the UMM room 'Eugene Lair' with my Pokes applied (so it's 'as manufacturer intended')? Maybe you could upload it here at JSWMM if you don't think it belongs on your YouTube channel?

Yes, I'll definitely do that. I will upload it right here.

 

6 hours ago, IRF said:

Incidentally, your walkthrough doesn't display a couple of 'Easter Egg' rooms in UMM which it isn't necessary to visit in order to complete the game (namely 'Manic Miner Pub' and 'The Mine Vehicle Department'). The latter of which contains a personal tribute (in the form of labelled sprites) to several of the 'old skool' people from the MM & JSW scene, including yourself! (Unless there is another 'Danny' on the scene?)

That's correct. My 'policy' for making the walkthroughs is to complete each game without losing any lives (unless necessary to collect an item or more) and doing it as efficiently as possible, resulting in a score in a MM game that will be as high as possible or the completion time in a JSW game that will be as good (early) as possible.*

As a result, if there are rooms in JSW games that the player doesn't have to visit in order to complete the game, they may be omitted in my walkthrough. "May" (not "will") because it depends on whether going through this room/these rooms is propitious to completing the game as efficiently as possible. If it is, you will see them in the walkthrough. If it's not, they won't be showcased.

The two rooms you've mentioned fall into the latter category and therefore are not present in my walkthrough. Nevertheless, I am grateful to Igor for this personal tribute (I am positive I'm "the Danny" it refers to 😉). The absence of the room in the walkthrough is a testament to the fact that I do stick to my 'policy' while creating the walkthroughs 😉 .

* "as efficiently as possible" within reasonable limits. I do not strive to achieve the maximum possible scores, like the ones determined (scientifically and via a 'peer review' LOL) for "MM". They have not been determined for the other games, so I don't know what they are. And even if I knew, producing pixel-perfect walkthroughs would require an investment of significantly much more time and energy than producing just 'decent' walkthroughs. I would not consider this 'investment' justified.

[IRF]

I wonder if all the other 'tributees' are aware of their 8-bit representation in the Manic Miner Pub in UMM?

[IRF]

2 hours ago, jetsetdanny said:

Yes, I'll definitely do that. I will upload it right here.

Do you want me to DM you a copy of the fixed gamefile, with the starting room/position set to the appropriate place?

Edited February 8 by IRF

[jetsetdanny]

Yes please, it will be appreciated!

[IRF]

On 2/8/2024 at 8:50 PM, IRF said:

I wonder if all the other 'tributees' are aware of their 8-bit representation in the Manic Miner Pub in UMM?

Sorry, I should have said 'The Mine Vehicle Department' there, not the MM Pub.