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JetSetDanny - I was wondering if you plan to add the Amiga versions to your JSWcentral website?

I totally get what you are saying. I think most (if not all!) game authors from way back would be flattered that anything to do with their game still exists, and has generated any interest nowadays. It's pretty obvious to them that they do not stand to make any money from something they did 40 years ago (at least from individuals making remakes/ports). It's not like we are claiming the games were our ideas. It's those greedy legal minded people out there, trying to make some quick cash, that ruin it for everyone. I vote that we move to another planet, and leave all those people behind 😁

That's a good point about inverting a logo, and do the same rules apply if something is digital? I think a lot of this boils down to the fact that judges/magistrates have limited technical knowledge, and people (and companies) totally take advantage of this. I've worked in the tech industry for many years, and seen many "very questionable" things that go on. However, the tech companies know very well that by staying one step (or several steps!) ahead of legal industries tech knowledge, they can stretch the law into very grey areas and get away with it. Telemetry within Microsoft Windows is a good example of this. I just wish there was a website out there that would clearly define what we can and cannot do when it comes to digital copyright infringements. But then again, why on earth they want the people to know the boundaries of law? 🤣

Sorry to re-ignite this thread, but I've been thinking recently if anyone knows the answer to this. If someone has an "intellectual property" copyright on something, what exactly does that mean? For example... A - Identical pixels to original, and identical colour (Despite what we remember, Willy was never pure white). That said, the grey I'm using is 192,192,192 (RGB). One could argue that since the ZX Spectrum never used RGB values, that any colour used today is just a visual approximation. Hence, any colour used is technically different from the original. B - Same pixels, pure white. As stated in A, Matt Smith's Willy (pardon the expression) was never pure white, so this Willy is again different from the original. C - Magenta Willy, clearly different from the original used. D - Pixels have been changed from the original, therefore is different. If all these Willy's are "different" in some way to the original, how can anyone claim that they own the Intellectual property? If you notice, anyone that claims to own the IP, never actually lays down the rules of what is and what is not copyright infringement. In conclusion, if someone owns the "intellectual property", does it mean whatever they want it to mean? If so, that seems massively unfair, to twist a law into what they want it to mean. Usually laws have to be written down with a definition. Otherwise, without a definition, how is one expected to abide by the law? Maybe the answer is... they are not.

Hopefully it posts this time... 😄 Before JSW '97, I wrote three other platformers: The Adventures of Wormface Demo (1993) - my first attempt at MM style Wheelchair Wizard (1993) - similair to MM, but main character is in a wheelchair! SkullHunter (1994) - large platformer, similar to JSW and two Shoot-em-up's: Rag II (1993) - an intense and addictive asteroid dodging game Plasma (1993) - a multilevel space invaders type game These were all pre-internet, so never got released on Aminet like JSW '97. I had no access to any other existing platformer code to write them, it was a case of "try and see if it works". Back then, the only example code you could get was in badly written books, the manual, or in magazines. Looking back the code I wrote was very sloppy, but it got the job done. With every game you learn a bit more. AMOS still has a following. Francois Lionet, it's creator, moved on to other projects after AMOS, such as Click & Create, and Multimedia Fusion. These were more visually driven creators, rather than traditional code. In theory, this sounds easy and great, but the reality is they are very limiting. A couple of years ago he even announced AMOS-2 for the PC, which has since been renamed AOZ-Studio (terrible name). I was excited about this, until I tried it. Just seemed like a jumbled bloated java mess. After AMOS, I moved from Amiga to PC and started programming in VB. It was great for making apps, but MS ruined it when they came out with VB.net. My brain is more procedurally wired, but VB.net and almost everything now is OOP. I get why they did this, but they really shafted beginners with this move. BlitzBasic is also worth a mention, and was massively underrated. Andy Noble was using this for a while. However, like most things Blitz died, and the author moved onto other things. I also used Stencyl several years back, and re-wrote Rag II (now called Basteroids). It's one of the better "drag & drop" creators. I soon ran into limitations. They are pitched as being easier than code, but certain tasks can actually be harder than code! In recent years I've settled on using GameMaker Studio2, which is pretty good. It's a steeper learning curve than others I've used, but it's still powerful. Annoyingly, I still feel that in 2022, many engines still miss features that AMOS and Blitz had, especially when it comes to sprite manipulation. Reason for this is because the Amiga used the Blitter chip, which was so good at dedicated sprite tasks. GameMaker does have a drag & drop mode, but I don't recommend it. It all depends on what your target platform is really. If you want to compile to Android and iOS, then you have limited options. If you want to only create for PC, then Blitz, although discontinued, is still a great option for learning the ropes. I've never heard of Laser Basic, but the MPAGD looks very interesting!

Yep, clicked the big blue "Submit Reply" button, and it showed up like it was posted. I refreshed about 20mins later and it vanished, like it was deleted. I thought maybe I clicked on "Preview" instead of "Submit Reply", but that's a small icon and not even next to the submit button. Don't worry about it, it's probably my fault somehow. I'll redo when I get chance.

That's weird, I wrote a long reply to this and it posted, at start of page 2. Now it's totally disappeared, like it never happened. Anyway to get it back, since I don't remember half of what I wrote? 😁

Good guess! Was tricky to learn anything back then without the internet! I got the AMOS manual in 1993 and spent that summer reading every word. Before that, I had only wrote basic stuff on the ZX and BBC Micro. AMOS clicked with me and I wrote five games (never released) in the next several months, while still at college. Despite it being regarded as a "Basic", it had some amazingly powerful features, even inline assembly code. I got more into PC's during university and moved onto VB. JSW '97 was written in late 1996 as my final AMOS project.

Yes, it was AMOS on the Amiga (which was a reworked STOS from the Atari ST). Shame the language fizzled out really, it was pretty amazing.

Answer is... Jet Set Willy '97

It's a dark secret I've carried for many years now. I had already moved on to PC app development, so the game was released in an unfinished state. I was not happy with the final result, and some bad reviews (due to emulation issues) made me remain anonymous. At the time, I believe it had more rooms than any existing JSW game. Looking back, it really was not that bad, considering how young I was, and was the work of one person. It was more a learning experience on how not to do things. Anyone like to take a guess? (Clue... it's not Top Hat Willy)

I vaguely remember this one, but the changes to the Willy sprite always bothered me. Rest of the graphics were pretty decent though. Something always seemed missing, or not quite right with the Amiga versions though, almost like the graphics were too good, or too many colours? Some things should remain simple, and I think the Spectrum versions nailed this. I am also guilty of releasing a version of JSW on the Amiga during the 90's, but we won't talk about that! 🤣

The "Willy with cap" trademarks (UK00003334784 and UK00003336174) are with West Wing Studios, not Elite. Elite trademarks are UK00003100730 and UK00003081930. However, is West Wing Studios connected to Elite Systems? possibly! I know Steve Wilcox has had many ventures with different names, confusingly even one called "Sinclair Computer Limited".

Appreciate the input MtM. I totally hear what you are saying, and huge part of me says "sod it, do it anyway". To release something anonymously is not as easy as it used to be. Certain compilers, GameMaker for example, will bake your license details into the compiled executable. Not sure if Visual Studio is doing this, but it would not surprise me. To backup your argument, any one I've heard of getting copyright threats is always trying to make money from it. If it's free, I would still like to put the game on the Google Play Store for exposure, but would Wilcox contact Google and claim he owns the IP? maybe. That would be a great conversation to hear if Google said to Wilcox "prove it" and he cannot.

It appears that Wilcox is more interested is making money than preserving the memories of MM/JSW. I would guess that most users of this forum are in the latter category. Your correspondence with Wilcox also suggests this. It's obvious that Wilcox and Smith have a mutual dislike to each other. I also agree that Matthew Smith deserves a big slice of any money generated. NONE of this would exist without Matthew Smith, and it seems clear that Wilcox does not respect that fact. Wilcox has also put fans of MM/JSW in a terrible position. People are wanting to put a ton of work into a game, just to honour the original and make a handful of fans happy, even for free. However, they can't out of fear of one man. I find this to be the most disgraceful part of all this. The IP for these games is almost 40 years old now. We need to do a "Save MM/JSW" GoFundMe and raise legal fee's to help Matthew Smith sort all this out. On a completely different note, I'm curious what language you wrote JSW3 in?

Unfortunately, Steve Wilcox would attempt to sue you in a heartbeat. Even if you put the game out as free. Despite what people may think, free does not avoid IP copyrights. Numerous people involved with MM/JSW IP have received letters from Wilcox demanding money. Whether or not he actually has any real legal power is still up in the air, and a risk you would have to take. I'm in the same situation myself. I can either continue the project using MM/JSW IP, and risk a letter from Wilcox, or strip the game of any MM/JSW IP and call it something else. However, at that point, it's missing the original magic.

That's true, it's a gamble, and if you are wrong then you're on the receiving end of a lawsuit. I just wish we could get to the bottom of this and see if he has any real legal power. If he does not, then he's a dark cloud on the retro-remake scene, and that bothers me.

Someone posted this tweet on the GameMaker forum regarding Elite, thought I would share... https://twitter.com/Horsenburger/status/1129900800279502848

Unfortunately, this is how things are now. You'll spend countless hours and brain power on creating something for a handful of people who may actually appreciate it, and then spend the rest of your life having panic attacks every time you see a black helicopter. They will hunt you down in the name of money. When did we become the bad guys here?

Yeah, it would appear the legalities are designed in a way that we are not supposed to understand it. I have seen the trademark images you speak of, and it is strange that they differ from the originals. Then one could argue that trademarks and copyrights are not the same thing. It's like "intellectual property" can mean whatever they want it to mean. I may even suggest that I could finish the game (containing original assets), under an untraceable alias rather than my name. However, it's difficult to distribute mobile versions since the App stores can be traced back to the submitter quite easily. It's also possible that the .exe could contain a GameMaker license fingerprint? who knows.

Thanks JSD, you raise some good points. I just found the JetSetWilly3 thread on here today, so I will read that. I also posted this on the GameMaker Forum to see what their take was. One of the members suggested that I avoid the legal minefield altogether and not to incorporate any of the original assets. My reason for doing this was to keep the nostalgic feel of the original games, to make the player feel at home, if you will. Most of the assets will be my own, but also adding original ones also. It's also good to know that no one else (to your knowledge) has ever had to pay-up for MM/JSW copyright infringement. However, Elite has only held the IP since 2019, so that could possibly change. The idea about "sending traffic Elite's way" in the credits is also a good one. It's tempting to just keep my game as-is and if a copyright issue occurs after the release, then make the changes accordingly. In my experience, they tend to warn you before taking action. It just saddens me that any legal red-tape could discourage remakes. It's been almost 40 years, and we are still creating these purely for the love of the originals, and certainly not to get rich from doing so!

Greetings! I have been developing a MM/JSW inspired game for some time, in GameMaker Studio 2. The game will be free, and is intended for the enjoyment of the MM/JSW fan community. However, I recently discovered that Elite Systems (since 2019) now hold the intellectual property rights for both Manic Miner & Jet Set Willy, as referenced in the legal document below. It's a complex situation, since Matthew Smith still insists that he holds the rights to the games (but cannot legally prove), and has always been cool with fan released games. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X-cGCu4azEog1bml5J6zxI5Fv8dT8iP2/view To clear things up, I contacted Steve Wilcox at Elite to receive clarification on to following questions: Am I permitted to use any of the sprites, graphics, sound effects, music from the original ZX Spectrum MM/JSW games? Can my game be released (for free) on Google Play Store, Apple App Store, etc? Am I required to mention 'Elite Systems Ltd' in the game credits? I received a brief response stating: Our position on the matter is as outlined in Link Legals statement, which you reference. Without sight of the 'MM/JSW inspired retro game' of which you wrote (and in the absence of the necessary further information to evaluate the likely commercial impact of your proposed activity) we're not able to elaborate on Link Legal's statement and we reserve all of our rights. Regards - Steve Wilcox, Director & Co-founder I appreciate a response from Steve, but he dodges the questions and the vagueness continues, as it did in the document. The document does not breakdown usage rights of sprites, graphics, sound effects or music, and just clumps everything under an 'intellectual rights' umbrella. I need specifics on what I can and cannot use. They can't exactly say "oh, that's a guy that jumps around on platforms, that's an infringement!". I also do not feel comfortable sending an 'evaluation' version of my game, which is far from finished. Has Elite realized that there is no longer money to be made from selling their games (as they tried with mobile versions), and decided there is more money to be made from suing individuals? I hope I am wrong, but If this is true, it is very sad. Especially from Elite, who have a huge catalog of ZX Spectrum games that are cherished by many. Not only that, but the one thing that has kept the MM/JSW legacy alive all these years are the countless remakes, mods and homages. If people are afraid to develop more games due to copyright infringement, is this the death of MM/JSW as we know it? From a legal perspective Matthew Smith was 'just the programmer', but I can't help feel that he has been screwed out of his own creations. It's games like MM/JSW that got many of us into programming in the first place. I'm at the point where I don't know if should spend any more time and move forward with this project. Does anyone have any input or suggestions regarding MM/JSW remakes and copyright infringement? Thanks!