jetsetdanny

Could you provide the code you are referring to? I mean what exactly needs to be modified and how.

(in no particular order) Sendy is back and her long-lost "Jet Set Willy: Role Reversal" and "Manic Person" have been finally gamma-released (with some input from yours truly). Furthermore, she has created "Strangel 2"! It's in a beta stage, I would say. I had the privilege of playtesting it, it's an amazing game. It still needs some finishing touches before the official release, but it's really another demonstration of Sendy's genius as a JSW author 🙂 . Adban de Corcy (Fabián Álvarez López) was active on the forum a couple of years ago. He worked on "Jet Set Jason: In Roddënwald" and developed it much further, but it's not ready for release yet and I don't think he has worked on it recently. I do hope he will complete the project one day, though. Geoff Eddy is a member. He released a very nice new game "Willy does the Great Pyramid!" back in 2021. Richard Hallas posts on the forum from time to time as well as on the "Central Cavern - The Wonderful World of Willy" Facebook group. Andrew Broad was active here in the past, but hasn't been seen for some time now. John Elliott is a member and, hopefully, reads the posts from time to time. He hasn't posted for a while though. Igor Makovsky is a "double member", but hasn't posted here yet. Vidar Eriksen (Erix1) has joined the forum, but unfortunately his presence was only momentary (he contributed 4 posts). The Drunken Master!!! is active on WoS, not here. I don't believe Stuart Hill has joined this forum, but he has commented on "Monstrum" on the JSW Central YouTube channel (revealing interesting info about the ending). That's a quick overview. I may have missed some people (sorry about this!), this "old-timers" list is not necessarily exhaustive. And there are some wonderful people here who were not active in the Yahoo! Group days but have done A LOT for JSW and MM in the last decade - I'm sure you will be pleased to e-meet them 🙂 .

Gary, Thank you so much for your official approval for the fixed WCH file - it's greatly appreciated! 👍 I will add this info to the Readme and to the game's page on JSW Central soon (within a couple of days). Thank you also for your permission to use stuff from your website 🙂 (which continues to be a reference point for me from time to time when checking some things related to the games from that period or earlier times). Regarding the JSW128 "Mass Collaboration" (MC) based on Utility Cubicles - I do intend to move this project forward at some point and bring it to completion. Sendy (who was its original coordinator) gave me permission to do it some years back on the Yahoo! Group; she may be involved as well, as the came back to the scene last year. There is also a person here at this forum (Jet Set Willie) who has already contributed some rooms to be included in the final version of MC. However, before the project is relaunched, there are some things that need to be done to get the file ready for a renewed circulation among authors, and in my current real-life circumstances it looks like I may not be able to find enough time to do it for quite a while. So the project is on the backburner as far as I'm concerned, really, but I do want to come back to it one day when circumstances permit (even if it is a few years from now). I do recall you estimated "Voyager" to be around 60-70% done. This is great and it would definitely be fantastic if you completed it, given that so much work has gone into it already 🙂 . I've checked your posts on the (now sadly offline) Yahoo! Group and here are the references you made to your unfinished games (apparently there was also one named "King Willy"): Wed Mar 13, 2002 sendy wrote: > gawp, what happened to your game? is it still going?! If you mean JSW - Voyager, yes. I found (most of) it on an old disc, so I'm on it again. I may put up a pre-beta demo for feedback? I've also started a new JSW game called 'Ants Invasion'. Will gets 'shrunk' to ant-size and has to escape from an ant-hill. It'll be better than it sounds... Wed Sep 4, 2002 (...) Voyager is coming on nicely (about 100 rooms now) and will be released at some point. Ants Invasion is mapped out on paper, with only about 15 rooms done. A lot of work there. King Willy is still in the design stage. I may do that one on the PC editor. Wed Apr 28, 2004 I'll upload more stuff soon. I'll put up a rough guide to areas in Voyager ASAP so people have a rough idea what's out there. I've also been working on 2 other JSW games. "Ants Invasion" and "Phantasmagoria" (the 2nd one uses some of the abandoned rooms from the UC MassCollab). But Voyager is the priority at the moment. I really want to get it done, as it's been too long in the making. Wed May 19, 2004 8:36 pm I've put a few preview pics up for "Voyager" and "Phantasmagoria" in the photos section under the 'gawp' folder. I've done about 40 screens for Phantasmagoria now... So how is "Phantasmagoria" exactly related to the original "MC"? You've mentioned that it uses "some of the abandoned rooms" from it. "Abandoned" meaning ones you designed for "MC" but then decided not to include in that project? I look forward to all and any projects you may choose to continue 🙂 . I've replied here.

I don't ever use Macs, so I don't know. However, I can share some info about running JSWED on a Mac. Igor Makovsky asked about it recently. The conversation is in the comments under the video here, starting with Igor's comment "Game author here. It was a dedication to my lovely SO, btw". As mentioned there, I reached out to John Elliott, JSWED's author, of course, to see if he can help. He got back to me and said that he hadn't tried to build JSWED on a Mac. He said it would be necessary to install the software development tools, download the source for JSWED and the libraries it uses, and compile it. Alternatively, it might be worth trying to run the Windows version under emulation, if the Mac has a suitable Windows virtual machine or emulator installed. John currently doesn't have access to a recent Mac, so he can't really offer detailed advice for this.

Hi UncleWan, welcome to the forum! 🙂 It's great that you've found this place, been able to overcome all the technical difficulties and can now post here. I find it amazing that you like MM and JSW while you first saw JSW only about 3 years ago. This actually gives me hope that some people in the future, long after our time, will still like the Willy games, which of course will be to them like perhaps us reading ancient literature or something. I've had a look at your Baidu page. Interestingly, when the page is translated automatically from Chinese to English, the game's name becomes "Crazy Miner". That's an interesting twist on the title 😉 . So thanks again for joining the forum and we look forward to the (unexpected, to be honest, while positively exciting) feedback and input from China!

Hi Gary, It's great to see you here! 😁 Thanks for joining the forum and welcome! 🙂 Thank you also for your positive attitude regarding the fixed version of "Willy Comes Home". Could I add your "official" approval to the Readme which accompanies the fixed version? I am aware of only one unfinished game of yours. It's "Voyager". I keep a file of it that you once posted to the Files section of the Yahoo! MM/JSW Group - it's called "Voyager(partdemo).zip", with "Voyager(partdemo)" in TAP and ZXS format inside. It' looks great (when browsed through in JSWED). I can send it back to you via a PM if you should need it (however, perhaps you might have a later version than the one you posted in the Yahoo! Group Files section). Please let me know if you need it 🙂 . John Elliott's JSWED still works like a charm, including on Windows 11, so hopefully it should be easy for you to work on a JSW game or two again. I look forward very much to "Voyager" being finished and released - it really is a very interesting project - and to anything else you might create. And if there is anything I could do to assist (like playtesting), I'll be more than happy to do it 🙂 . - Daniel

Hello Everyone, I am bumping this topic to see if there may be any suggestions as to the item collection issues described in it. Since posting here, I sent the game's author, Steve, two e-mails drawing his attention to my questions, but he hasn't responded (while my e-mails didn't bounce, either). I'm planning to present the four videos of "Terry The Turtle" on the JSW Central YouTube channel in May (starting about four weeks from now). If I don't solve the mystery by then, I will just re-record the walkthroughs as best I can, collecting those items I know how to collect and leaving the problematic ones in place. I certainly want my walkthroughs not to miss any collectable items, so if you should like to help make sure their quality is not compromised, please have a look at the problem described in this thread to see if you can come up with any definitive answers! 🙂

Hi Dickie - welcome to the forum and thanks for your game! 🙂

"Willy Comes Home" is the only JSW game gamma-released (so far! 😉) by Gary Pearce (Gawp!). It holds the distinction of being the first 'properly-edited' game using the JSW128 game engine. This is because "Jet Set Willy 128", the very first game ever released in this category, mostly served as a demonstration of the engine's features, with the majority of its rooms sourced from the original "JSW" and Richard Hallas's "Join the Jet-Set!". In fact, Gary began his editing work with "Jet Set Willy 128", and the block designs in many rooms clearly reveal their origins in one of its source games. He used sprites from the original "JSW", "MM" and "Join the Jet-Set!", and also created some new ones. The game boasts a large map that can be explored with relative ease. It uses Hacklevel 6 of the JSW128 game engine. The game was released in March 2000, with a corrected version 1.1 following in April of the same year. However, despite the update, v. 1.1 was still incompletable due to a critical bug in the room "Harbour Hangover" (083): it was impossible to collect the rightmost item because of a Fire cell that prevented it. There are also two additional problems in v. 1.1 of the game which would render the game bed-completable only even with this issue corrected. The first problem involves a hole in the floor of "Bathroom (with purple bath)" (033) - Willy would fall into it during the toilet run, descending through "The Chapel" (027) and repeatedly getting killed in "Ballroom West" (021), resulting in a very anticlimactic ending. The second one is that even with the hole problem fixed, upon reaching the toilet, Willy would get teleported to "A flash in the Pan" (201), since there is a teleporter, necessary for gameplay progression, that shares its location with the toilet. This ending does not seem correct, as the game file contains an edited sprite of Willy inside the toilet, suggesting that the game's author intended it for the traditional ending. In June 2007, Robin Clive submitted a recording of "Willy Comes Home" to the RZX Archive. The recording was made using a modified game file, with the Harbour item problem fixed by removing the obstructing Fire cell and the Bathroom problem fixed by filling in the hole in the floor. However, Robin did not address the third problem described earlier and, as a result, at the end of the toilet run his playthrough ends in "A flash in the Pan" without reaching a proper conclusion. Robin never released his modified game file (however, an RZX recording can be used to play the game it was made from). I recently tried to complete the game and discovered the problems discussed earlier. I also prepared a bugfixed, toilet-completable version of the game. The "Harbour Hangover" item problem was solved by adding a platform from which Willy can jump for the item in question (the original obstructing Fire cell remains in its place). The Bathroom hole problem was solved by adding some extra code that makes Willy jump during the toilet run (so that the original design of this room has not been modified), and the issue of teleportation near the toilet was resolved by adjusting the code to check for Willy's proximity to the toilet earlier. The bugfixed version can be downloaded from the recently updated game's page on JSW Central. I am also attaching it here for your convenience should anyone be interested in obtaining it. It can be completed without any loss of life. I have been able to complete it (in my third recording 😉) at 8:57 am in-game time, and I have to say I was very proud of making it in under two hours. My RZX walkthrough can be downloaded from the game's page on JSW Central. You can also watch a video of it on the JSW Central channel on YouTube. I would like to encourage everyone to play the game. It is easy (especially when you play saving and reloading snapshots or using Rollback) and fun to explore. I'm sure you will enjoy it! 🙂 Willy_Comes_Home_(bugfixed_version).zip

A few weeks ago Richard Hallas brought to my attention a JSW remake that was missing from the lists of games on JSW Central. It is called "Jet Set II" and it was created by Stewart Fordyce (Wizard Software) back in 1985. I believe this remake remained obscure until October 2022, when it was added to ZXDB and posted on Spectrum Computing by R-Tape. In fact, Richard had spotted it on SC before he let me know about it. "Jet Set II" has the same layout as the original JSW. Several rooms are completely modified - most notably, "THE FURNACE" (10) replaces "The Front Door", "JUMP IN THE MOTOR" (40) substitutes for "Dr Jones will never believe this", "Space Invaders" (55) replaces "West Bedroom" and "Above the West Bedroom" (57) bears no resemblance to its original version despite sharing the same name. While most rooms have been altered to varying degrees, some remain unchanged, such as "On the Roof" [18] and "Master Bedroom" [35], the latter now named "GET OUT YOU CREAP". Guardian paths and item locations remain unaltered, although some guardian sprites have been modified. The title-screen and in-game music are the same as in the original JSW, while the scrolling title message has been edited. The player is instructed to "guide Willy around his brand new house", to "collect the objects to get some money in the bank" and then to "get to bed before 12:00 am". I have now fully 'processed' the game (as per my standards). I played it to as near to completion as was possible, identified critical errors, created a bug-fixed version, played it to completion and RZX-recorded it, created a video of my walkthrough for the JSW Central YouTube channel and added the game to the list of games on JSW Central, creating an individual page for it, along with a complete screenshot gallery and download options. The game's JSW Central page is here, and the YouTube video of my walkthrough is here. The game as created by Stewart Fordyce was impossible to complete due to a critical bug in the room "Under the Drive" (45). It was impossible to jump over the magenta guardian after entering the room at the upper right, which resulted in Willy's repeated deaths. Since this is the only way out after passing through "Tree Root" (46), where two items need to be collected, this bug effectively made it impossible to collect these items and continue the gameplay, rendering the game incompletable. An additional problem was that even with this issue corrected, the game would still only be bed-completable, as the wall in the middle of the Bathroom would prevent Willy from finalising the toilet run. I fixed the "Under the Drive" problem by removing one Earth cell, which prevented Willy from making the same kind of jump over the guardian as in the original "Jet Set Willy". I also solved the Bathroom problem by adding some extra code which allows Willy to pass through the wall during the toilet run. The bug-fixed version can be downloaded from the game's JSW Central page. I was able to complete it, with the loss of one life, at 7:56 in-game time (just like in the original JSW, a life has to be sacrificed to collect the leftmost item in "Conservatory Roof" [43]). All in all, I would definitely not call "Jet Set II" a quality release by today's standards. I even wondered whether to include it in the "New games" category or rather the "Advanced modifications of the original JSW" section. Finally, I opted for the former. I do think "Jet Set II" has historical value, going all the way back to the "real hardware" era. And, if someone wants to spend an hour or two roaming around Willy's somewhat modified mansion - it's always a pleasure, and it's free, too 🙂 . If anyone has any more info about Stewart Fordyce or the game itself, please let me know about it (here or by e-mail) and I will be happy to update the information on JSW Central.

Yes, both top hats AND mining helmets!!! 😄

A big THANKS and hats off to Andy (Spider) for fixing the site! He did it all by himself, both providing the upgraded software and performing the update. It feels good to be back. Thanks again, Andy! 👍 🙏 👏 🍾

Platforms - yes. These are the so-called "Forbidden Hallowed Grounds". Please see this thread for more info. Items - no. If items were put in really inaccessible areas in a regular JSW game, the game would be incompletable, because you couldn't collect these items if you couldn't reach them. Hence you couldn't make Maria disappear or reach the bed to trigger the toilet run. This basic problem does not occur in "Terry The Turtle", because this game is not Maria-, bed- or toilet-completable - there is no Maria, no bed and no toilet run, so the fact that not all items can be collected does not matter. As defined by the author, "flashing Terry Tokens (...) do not have to be collected to complete the game, you just have to get Terry to deep water".

Thank you for your thoughts. I believe the answer is 'no' to both questions. I've checked the rooms in question in JSWED, changing the attributes of all cells to certain default colours I always use for these occasions (blue on blue for Earth, green on green for Water, etc.), which rules out any hidden platforms. I also checked the guardians. I believe there are no switches in the game. I am pretty sure there aren't any custom code modifications, either - my understanding is that the game was designed using JSWED's GUI without any 'fancy' stuff.

"Terry The Turtle" is the game to try it "the natural way", i.e. without any POKEs. You start out with 7 lives which are visible on the screen. As you gain extra lives, 4 more become visible as little turtles on the screen, just like the original 7. The next 3 extra lives are not marked in any visible way, and then with the 15th life the leftmost little turtle at the bottom of the screen, symbolising a life, starts to flicker. Then, with the following extra lives, the next turtles at the bottom of the screen start to flicker. When the number of lives exceeds 28, it affects the display of the room names (the letters disappear starting with the leftmost one; the effect is irreversible - even if the number of your lives goes down below 28 again, the affected letters in room names in new rooms you enter are not visible). With even more lives the game is slowed down or it can crash or become unplayable in some other way (e.g. because of 'rogue' cells blocking your way). As the author of the game, Steve Dixon (Jammajup), explains, "if you are good at these types of games and constantly use the emulator save state you can collect so many lives you can slow down or even crash the game!" Indeed, this is a serious problem and in order to eliminate it, while recording the RZX walkthroughs of the four versions of the game (three of which still need to be improved - please see this thread for details), I deliberately killed Terry many times during each walkthrough, so as not to have more than 28 lives at any point in the game. The elimination of the excessive number of lives had to take place, much as I dislike serial suicides 😉 . However, if someone is interested, you could experiment with the extra lives and the effects their excess produces.

“Terry The Turtle” (henceforth: “TTT”) is a JSW64 game by Steve Dixon (Jammajup, Purple Unicorn Software). It was released in 2013 in four versions: Yellow (Normal), Cyan (Intermediate), Red (Hard) and Vector (Special Edition). The game showcases lots of beautiful, atmospheric rooms (divided into 8 thematic zones plus tribute screens to other video games). If features a lovely little turtle, Terry, as protagonist. After a major hurricane the turtles hatch to find the run across the beach to the ocean even more difficult as the whole island has been transformed by the bad weather. You have to help Terry on his way to deep sea. I am currently preparing videos of the walkthroughs of all four versions of the game for the JSW Central YouTube channel, and I have run into the problem of whether or not it is possible to collect all items in each version. I would like to ask for your assistance to 'peer-review' my findings – if you’re interested and have some time to investigate, please read on. According to the game's author, "flashing Terry Tokens award lives but do not have to be collected to complete the game, you just have get Terry to deep water". With the game's completion defined in this way, all four versions of the game are completable. None of them is either Maria- or toilet-completable, though. The Red version is item-completable (I have been able to collect them all). The question remains if the Yellow, Cyan and Vektor versions are item-completable, i.e. if all items can be collected in each variant. I don’t think this is the case. The reason I’m posting this message is to ask for help in either determining how the items I cannot collect can be collected (if that’s indeed the case) or else in confirming that it is impossible to collect some of the items in these versions. I RZX-recorded my walkthroughs of the four versions of “TTT” back in 2015. The recordings have been hosted on the RZX Archive ever since and can be downloaded from there, together with a Readme where I list the items I don’t think are collectable in each version. That description is flawed – I already know that some of the items it mentions as impossible to collect can indeed be collected. So please disregard it – an updated list is presented below. I got in touch with Steve (Jammajup) back in 2015. He let me know how to solve some of the problems I had with collecting the items. He also said (in an e-mail), “I recall getting all possible items during play testing on all versions which had to be done but was a chore”. Steve has posted videos of the completion of each version – you can watch them on his YouTube channel. However, in these videos he “simply showed shortest route to game end and not how to get all items”, so they’re not helpful in terms of providing solutions to the problem I’m facing. For the JSW Central YouTube channel I plan to record videos showing the collection of all items that can be collected. So before I re-record the four game versions (or three of them, since the Red version is pretty much ready) I would like to be either able to collect all items in each version or to be sure that some items indeed cannot be collected. [A sidenote: The videos will show the collection of all of the items that can be collected, but not necessarily all of the rooms. My regular “ethos” when recording videos for the channel is to show the game completed as efficiently as possible without any unnecessary loss of life. It this means skipping some rooms that do not have to be visited, they are skipped. The only exception so far have been “Jet Set Willy II” and “Jet Set Willy II+” – since they can be completed without collecting all items, there are two recordings of each of them – one showing a completion with all items collected and no unnecessary loss of life, the other showing a speedrun with only the minimum amount of items collected necessary to trigger the toilet run and lives lost along the way to speed up the process. In case of “TTT”, I could showcase various variants of completion of each version, from the quickest possible completion (without collecting all items and without visiting all rooms – just getting Terry to the deep sea as quickly as possible) to the most comprehensive one (collecting all items and showing all rooms). I have opted for a middle-of-the-road solution – I plan to showcase the collection of all items, but not necessarily all rooms if passing through them would involve a detour. End of sidenote 😉 ]. So here are the items in each version I don’t see that it is possible to collect. Any feedback would be appreciated – both in the form of showing how an item/items in question can be collected after all, and in the form of confirming that you don’t see either how they could be collected. I “TTT” Yellow 1. “Hidden Chamber” (012) Most of the items in this room can be collected after you arrive here via a teleporter from “*SECRET* Ancient Device” (094). However, I don’t see how you can collect the uppermost item marked below: You can’t grab it from below or jump for it. You could only collect it arriving where it is from another room after entering from the room to the left or via teleportation. I believe there is no such teleporter or possibility of entrance from an adjacent room. 2. Room "U-852 Secret Load & Kill Screen" (124) You can collect the two righmost items after entering from “U-852 Communications Room” (119), which is the room to the right, and you can collect some more items after arriving via teleportation from “U-852 Communications Room” onto the upper central platform, namely: you can grab 8 items without losing a life, and you can grab 4 more while losing one life. Please see the two attached RZX files to see what I mean. There remain 62 items in this room which I believe cannot be collected, including 13 in the enclosure at the upper left and 49 items in the central part of the room, around the stationary guardians. Any idea if there is a way to reach at least some of them? The problem is that “U-852 Communications Room” (119) is the ONLY room in the game which has an exit (left) leading to "U-852 Secret Load & Kill Screen" (124). So you can only arrive in "U-852 Secret Load & Kill Screen" from “U-852 Communications Room”, in a double way: via the regular left exit or via teleportation. If you enter “U-852 Communications Room” in the regular way, you can collect the two rightmost items and that’s it, you can’t do anything else (as far as I can tell). It *looks* like you should be able to climb through the two walls to reach the right edge of the central part of the room. However, you can’t do even this, because the rightmost yellow 'door handle' (a conveyor cell) is one block too high – you cannot jump up high enough to reach it. If you arrive via teleportation onto the upper central platform, you can collect the 12 items I mentioned above and do nothing else, because you either die smashing against the guardian below or you get teleported back to “U-852 Communications Room”. And then, even IF the player somehow got to the central part of the room, to the right or left of the stationary guardians, they still couldn’t collect all of the items – like the ones that are high up in the air. Or am I missing something??? II “TTT” Cyan I believe 11 items cannot be collected in this version. This number includes: - the uppermost item in the room "Hidden Chamber" (012); - 10 items in the enclosure at the upper left of "U-852 Secret Load & Kill Screen" (124). Again, am I missing something here? III “TTT” Red The Red version is the only one which is item-completable. This is ironic, given that it’s supposed to be the hardest one. IV Vektor I believe 63 items cannot be collected in this version. This number includes: - 62 items in the room "U-852 SECRET LOAD & KILL SCREEN" (124) – the same ones that cannot be collected in the Yellow version. - 1 item (either one) in the room "STYX - THE RIVER OF HATE" (068): When you are falling down from "DESCENTION" (069), you can collect either one or the other item; you cannot collect them both, because they are two blocks apart. Then there is no way to go back and fall down again in order to collect the remaining item. So for the last time, am I missing anything here? Your feedback will be greatly appreciated 🙂 . TTT U-852 1.rzx TTT U-852 2.rzx

Sendy's "Manic Person" has the stack address changed (in both versions). It uses the spare bytes related to unused guardian data at #FAF3 - #FAFF. To be precise, the instruction at #8401 - #8403 places the stack at #FAFE. So when there's one address on the stack, it occupies the last two bytes of this spare space (i.e. #FAFE and #FAFF). I don't quite understand why it works this way, but then the following addresses are occupied going 'backwards' (i.e. the next occupied pair of addresses will be #FAFC - #FAFD, then #FAFA - #FAFB and so on). When working on the 'postproduction' of "Manic Person" (adding some special effects and loads of music), I was a little worried that a stack overwflow could occur, since the available space allocated to the stack is limited. However, after playtesting the game by completing it twice (two sets of caverns), there were still four or six spare bytes in the allocated space (00s, not overwritten by the program). It was actually the same amount as after completing the game for the first time (one set of caverns). So I decided it was safe to leave the stack there, as I couldn't think of any scenario in which it would occupy (overwrite) more space. The change was done in order to use the space at #934C - #9CFF for other purposes, of course.

Thanks for this amazing investigation, DigitalDuck! Are you sure about the statement quoted above? I haven't checked this out in any way, but judging by other instances of corruption that happen in MM games, I thought once it happens, it cannot be undone. Meaning: once some rogue cells are printed on the screen, they stay there. However, I may be wrong on this, so this is just a question, not a suggestion that your statement was incorrect 🙂 .

I don't recall anything like this. However, functionally this wouldn't be different from what usually happens - if the wall that collapses after the first switch is tripped blocks access to a part of the room where some items are, these items are only collectable after the first switch has been tripped (because prior to that they are unreachable).

Intriguing, indeed. And I fully agree that if it involved the use of some quirky feature of an unmodified game engine without any POKEs, then it should count. Has the algorithm been beaten again??? Looking forward to the revelation of the mystery 😉 .

Hear! Hear!

This is one of the main reasons I *always* play using Rollback. It allows me to progress efficiently through games while solving them "relatively honestly", i.e. without using an Infinite Lives- or any other POKEs. If I were to try completing a game with only seven lives (or even 20, or 50), I probably wouldn't be able to do it at all, and if I really had to do it, I would have to spend weeks and possibly months training to achieve it. I would consider that an utter waste of time - and that's referring to my otherwise beloved JSW and MM games.

The 'cavern' thing, which sounds so weird when applied to Deserted Isle, is all Matthew Smith's fault. If "Manic Miner" had had consecutive islands as a setting instead of caverns, today we would be discussing whether a JSW room with a portal for the sole exit should be considered an island! 🤣

I thought about "Manic Mixup" as well as an example of levels of difficulty. I would definitely agree here. However, I also relate to the word "level" being used for any kind of game where passing on to the next screen/game map/part of game map, etc. depends on solving the previous level (which may be a screen/game map/part of game map, etc.) successfully. "MM" is a perfect example of a game having levels in this sense. One screen (room, cavern) is equivalent to one level. Interestingly, in "Double Miner" I would say that there are 10 levels, but 20 rooms/screens/caverns, because the player needs to solve two rooms/screens/caverns before moving on to the next level. "Double Miner" is also an interesting test for Ian's definition of a cavern, because each pair of rooms consists of a "non-portal room" and a "portal room". You can move between them freely, but you can only progress to the next level of the game (the word 'level' comes in so handy here!) after collecting all of the items in both rooms, which activates the portal. So are both of these rooms caverns or not? I would only say that individually they are not levels; together each pair of rooms creates a level. Another consideration: speaking about 'levels' defined as I described at the start of this post, I believe the level of difficulty is irrelevant, or at least does not have to be relevant. The game can have a number of levels (in terms of this definition) that will have either the same level of difficulty, or a random level of difficulty (some levels are more difficult than others but not in any particular order - I would say MM is actually like this), or a rising level of difficulty, or, theoretically, even a falling level of difficulty, or some other pattern (like for example: a game where you progress through a zoo. First come screens featuring fish: easy level - moderate level - hard level; then come screens featuring birds: easy level - moderate level - hard level; then come screens features animals: easy level - moderate level - hard level, and so on). Admittedly, it is probably more common to find games where the difficulty level increases as the player progresses through the levels ("Jumping Jack" is a great Spectrum example that comes to mind, one of my non-JSW favourites) than where it goes down. But again, it happens in many games, but it doesn't have to happen to define what a level is. I would also agree that if someone talks about levels in JSW games, I would probably think about first of all about 'geographical' levels as per the game's map. However, this doesn't have to be the case either. Some games have so many "illogical" room exits (you leave room A and enter room B, but when you go back, instead of re-rentering room A you enter room C, etc.) that it may be very difficult to make a 'geographical' map of them. Or, even if the exits *are* logical, the game map can have such a shape that it would be difficult to talk about levels - which I think we subconsciously identify with the storeys of Willy's original mansion. But not every game map has such a mansion... Finally, one could also design JSW games that would have 'levels' as defined at the start of this post. A prime example of this would be "Party Willy (JSW128 version)" - you have to collect all of the items in the rooms that are equivalent to the 48K "Party Willy" Part 1 and do the mid-game toilet run to be able to start playing the rooms that are equivalent to the 48K "Party Willy" Part 2. In this sense, the game has two levels (although I wouldn't normally think of them as 'levels', but 'parts', because of the game's name). My general feeling is that in "Party Willy" you cannot really talk about an increase in difficulty level between the two parts (they are both very difficult). So it's an example of a JSW game that has 'levels', but they're not defined by increased difficulty. "Jet Set 40-40" is another example of a JSW game that has levels in the sense of having to complete one part of the game to be able to progress to the next part. In this case, the levels are also marked by an increased level of difficulty (the player has to collect four complete sets of items; once the last item of one set has been collected, the items of the next set will appear. The difficulty of the game will increase with each consecutive set of items, as more and more guardians threaten Willy's progress through his mansion and its surroundings).

That's a nice-sounding definition, although I think it might lead to using the words "cavern" and "level" interchangeably and always referring to MM games, as there are no such levels in JSW. However, it won't always work, I believe, for the following reason: In JSW64 and other advanced game engines you can have a MM-like room which Willy enters and can only leave via a portal after collecting all items in that room. However, such a room may be not a part of any longer sequence (like having to go through all of the original MM rooms before returning to the main, JSW-like part of the game map), it may be there on its own, as a kind of "detour" among JSW-like rooms. In this case, it would still be a cavern as per Ian's definition, but I don't think anyone would call it a 'level' (it would be a 'room' and a 'cavern', but not a 'level'! 😜).