Spider Posted February 15, 2022 Report Share Posted February 15, 2022 Yes despite what is said it still seems to be a minefield unfortunately 😞 Having said that has anyone ever had any concerns with releasing any electronic items (aka: software) completely free of charge ? Not giving licence by saying this, merely my observations... Although slightly off topic, I'm curious on physical sales too, items like t-shirts / mugs / badges etc featuring M.W... I suspect these may attract more attention as theirs 'commercial gain' perhaps. jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtM Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 In truth, is anyone really going to try and sue anyone these days over such an old game? No one is going to make any money really. How much would you make from a new official jsw game? Very difficult to see more than a few thousand pounds to me, not really life changing sums, not in the long term. I would just publish and see what happens, worst case scenario make a donation to a charity to offset any legal challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymbolShift Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Unfortunately, Steve Wilcox would attempt to sue you in a heartbeat. Even if you put the game out as free. Despite what people may think, free does not avoid IP copyrights. Numerous people involved with MM/JSW IP have received letters from Wilcox demanding money. Whether or not he actually has any real legal power is still up in the air, and a risk you would have to take. I'm in the same situation myself. I can either continue the project using MM/JSW IP, and risk a letter from Wilcox, or strip the game of any MM/JSW IP and call it something else. However, at that point, it's missing the original magic. JianYang and Spider 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel Stonk Posted February 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 Thanks everyone. I believe you may be right, SymbolShift, which is why I have been hesitant about releasing the game, even for free. During development of this game I was actually in correspondence with Steve Wilcox regarding licensing or publishing of this game, as my research to that point strongly suggested that Elite did own the exclusive worldwide rights to all JSW and MM IP. Things were going well and we had almost reached an agreement when, about a year ago, he decided to back out due to the dispute with Matthew Smith over ownership. Although I suggested bringing Matthew Smith into the conversation and perhaps trying to come to a mutual arrangement that would benefit us all, Steve Wilcox was not interested and insisted that I do not release the game. To be honest, even if Matthew Smith has no legal rights to any of the IP, I would have had no problem with him getting something out of this as I think he deserves it. I also would have greatly valued his input and endorsement. I guess I will have to wait for now, and keep my ear to the ground for when and if this mess ever gets sorted out. jetsetdanny, Spider and JianYang 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymbolShift Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 It appears that Wilcox is more interested is making money than preserving the memories of MM/JSW. I would guess that most users of this forum are in the latter category. Your correspondence with Wilcox also suggests this. It's obvious that Wilcox and Smith have a mutual dislike to each other. I also agree that Matthew Smith deserves a big slice of any money generated. NONE of this would exist without Matthew Smith, and it seems clear that Wilcox does not respect that fact. Wilcox has also put fans of MM/JSW in a terrible position. People are wanting to put a ton of work into a game, just to honour the original and make a handful of fans happy, even for free. However, they can't out of fear of one man. I find this to be the most disgraceful part of all this. The IP for these games is almost 40 years old now. We need to do a "Save MM/JSW" GoFundMe and raise legal fee's to help Matthew Smith sort all this out. On a completely different note, I'm curious what language you wrote JSW3 in? Â Spider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 Has anyone noticed the images in the trademark, the M.W character looks more like the 'Colonel', referred to in the instructions (yes I still have this from 'back then') in Roller Coaster ? , the 'hat' especially. I don't suppose that point matters in this case however, it was pointed out a while ago I think elsewhere. jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtM Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 Listen, if you release a game for free and anonymously, how is anyone going to sue you and for what? They would need to know who you were and where you were first, and as long as you took a few basic precautions there would be no chance of that. Say they put a message up on here threatening folk - big deal. Talk is incredibly cheap, especially on the internet, friends. I would simply carry on with your plans. No one is going to sue anyone. They may threaten it, like my dad is bigger than your dad, but how many times did you ever hear of the two dads actually meeting and fighting it out? No, me neither. So relax, release your game for free, and without any contact details for yourself in it if you are paranoid, that way no one can get in touch and make any idle threats. If you aren't making any money out of someone else's work you are in a strong position. Look at how many authors on here have used MS's work to release free games. Have any of them been sued? Not that I am aware of anyway. It will be fine. There are lots of mods for games that you can still buy that fit into this category that are out there.  I think the idea to raise money for MS is a good one though and would happily contribute, he does deserve something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JianYang Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, MtM said: So relax, release your game for free, and without any contact details for yourself in it if you are paranoid, that way no one can get in touch and make any idle threats. That may work for most of us, but for PixelStonk that's probably no longer an option: 16 hours ago, Pixel Stonk said: During development of this game I was actually in correspondence with Steve Wilcox regarding licensing or publishing of this game  jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymbolShift Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 1 hour ago, MtM said: Listen, if you release a game for free and anonymously, how is anyone going to sue you and for what? They would need to know who you were and where you were first, and as long as you took a few basic precautions there would be no chance of that. Say they put a message up on here threatening folk - big deal. Talk is incredibly cheap, especially on the internet, friends. I would simply carry on with your plans. No one is going to sue anyone. They may threaten it, like my dad is bigger than your dad, but how many times did you ever hear of the two dads actually meeting and fighting it out? No, me neither. So relax, release your game for free, and without any contact details for yourself in it if you are paranoid, that way no one can get in touch and make any idle threats. If you aren't making any money out of someone else's work you are in a strong position. Look at how many authors on here have used MS's work to release free games. Have any of them been sued? Not that I am aware of anyway. It will be fine. There are lots of mods for games that you can still buy that fit into this category that are out there.  I think the idea to raise money for MS is a good one though and would happily contribute, he does deserve something. Appreciate the input MtM. I totally hear what you are saying, and huge part of me says "sod it, do it anyway". To release something anonymously is not as easy as it used to be. Certain compilers, GameMaker for example, will bake your license details into the compiled executable. Not sure if Visual Studio is doing this, but it would not surprise me. To backup your argument, any one I've heard of getting copyright threats is always trying to make money from it. If it's free, I would still like to put the game on the Google Play Store for exposure, but would Wilcox contact Google and claim he owns the IP? maybe. That would be a great conversation to hear if Google said to Wilcox "prove it" and he cannot. jetsetdanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SymbolShift Posted February 19, 2022 Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) On 2/18/2022 at 2:28 PM, Spider said: Has anyone noticed the images in the trademark, the M.W character looks more like the 'Colonel', referred to in the instructions (yes I still have this from 'back then') in Roller Coaster ? , the 'hat' especially. I don't suppose that point matters in this case however, it was pointed out a while ago I think elsewhere. The "Willy with cap" trademarks (UK00003334784 and UK00003336174) are with West Wing Studios, not Elite. Elite trademarks are UK00003100730 and UK00003081930. However, is West Wing Studios connected to Elite Systems? possibly! I know Steve Wilcox has had many ventures with different names, confusingly even one called "Sinclair Computer Limited". Edited February 20, 2022 by SymbolShift typo jetsetdanny and Spider 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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